EP 71: Sod Bank Striper 101 with Chris Matuson

Striped bass aren’t magic, and they aren’t just “there or not there.” We’re bringing back a favorite throwback conversation with Chris Matuson to lay out a practical, boots-on-the-ground playbook for sod bank fishing and surf fishing that actually translates into more hookups from shore. If you’ve ever stood on a beach or a bank for hours wondering why nothing happens, this is the mindset shift: find the structure, pick the real window, and fish with intention.

We talk through how to read a sod bank like a trout stream, where bass stage on outgoing tides, and why tiny changes in current, depth, and casting angle can be the difference between watching fish feed and actually connecting. Chris shares why he stays artificial-only for striped bass, why topwater is his first move for much of the season, and how larger-profile plugs like the Yo-Zuri Hydro Minnow and a properly worked Spook can turn finicky fish into violent strikes. We also get into surf structure, troughs and rips, and how to target the “one stretch that looks different” when the rest of the beach feels dead.

Then we zoom out to the hard stuff: back bay pressure, spot burning, poaching, and why conservation and access go hand-in-hand for land-based anglers. If you care about striper fishing in New Jersey and beyond, you’ll leave with clearer rules for tides, wind, moon phase, bait presence, and ethical decisions that protect the fishery. Subscribe, share this with a fishing buddy, and leave a review with your best “short window” striper lesson.

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Transcript

Why Structure Beats Luck

Chris Matuson 0:00

If you don't know how to read sidebanks and kind of know where that structure is, same thing in the surf. If you don't know where the trough is or you don't know where, you know, the the rip is forming, you could stand there all day and be a half a block away. Or you could be on, they could be right in front of you on the sidebank, but if your casting angle isn't correct and your retrieve speed is not what it needs to be, you could stand there all day and have them in front of you and you'll just never hook up.

Meet Chris And The SOD Obsession

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 0:31

Hello and welcome back to the Fat Dad Fishing Show. My name is Rich Natoli. I'm your regular host, and this week we have for you a throwback episode. An episode actually from November 2021, where we had Chris Matusan come on and we talked about sod and surf striped bass fishing. Called it a 101 issue because we talked a lot of education, a lot of information that's gonna help you be more productive for striped bass fishing from land. This is one of the lost episodes and it's well worth putting back out there for you. So make sure you're ready for some information on this one. Before we get into that, we're gonna hit the sponsors real quick. We have Great Bay Outfitters on Radio Road in Tuckerton, New Jersey. That's your stores, my stores, my number one stores for anything kayak fishing related, everything from new kayaks to used kayaks to accessories to fit outs. If you want to test a kayak on the water to see if it's the right fit for you, head down to Great Bay Outfitters. Tell Paul what you're looking for. He will put them in the water in the lagoon and you can test them out and get a feel for them in real life, in real time. So you will know what the best fit is for you. And if you have a Toyota truck, quad, stay tuned. Kevin Driscoll is your man. If you're looking for getting more performance out of the engines on these Toyota trucks, the Tacoma, the Lexus, they all have great engines, but they can be better. These engine tunes will get you better performance, better torque, better horsepower, better mileage. Reach out to Kevin Driscoll. Contact information is in the description of this podcast. And the final sponsor is me, Rich Natoli Real Estate with the Wiker Cornerstone Realtors in Bluebell and Collegeville Residential Real Estate in Southeastern Pennsylvania. If you need something, buy, sell, or invest, I'm your guy. Reach out to me and let me do some work for you. That's how I pay my bills. And I appreciate all of the support I've been getting from everyone over the years. It is thanks to everybody for your business and your referrals that I'm able to continue doing this podcast and continue to eat at night and pay my bills. So thank you to everybody for that. Please support the sponsors. And with that, we're not going to wait. We're going to jump in back to this throwback episode from 2021 and Chris Matusa. Chris, welcome. Welcome to the show. Very happy that you're that you're on. I'm going to tell people really the uh I guess the origin story of how you got here and what what what my perspective is on this episode. So um, so I have I have seen Chris online uh through actually through sodpigs, which is a page that he runs on Facebook, and and it was all about I think Steve Steve V told me, hey, you got to check out this page, and and I and I checked it out. And man, uh for for a couple of years, maybe it's even been three years that I've been following that, and I keep seeing Chris out there, and you know, I'm banging the sod and he's he's pulling out some solid fish, and I'm thinking this guy knows what he's doing, and I and I was I really wanted Chris to come on, but but my first thought was Chris, this is a guy who is a who's clinical about his fishing, like you you're into the detail. I I mean you can just tell by the post and the results, like you are studying striped bass, you're studying the areas that you're in, you're studying the conditions, and I wasn't sure if you would be willing to share anything with anyone else because there's a you know, there's that big time on the water thing, and some people are like, no, just go out. But I learned I learned over the past couple of years that you're probably the opposite. You won't tell them this spot, but you will really tell people, hey, these are the things that you want to look for, and and it looks like you're interested in getting responsible fishermen onto the fish so that they can get out there and enjoy themselves.

Productive Time On The Water

Chris Matuson 4:17

Yeah, I I think the biggest part for me is you know, I I've put a lot of time in, especially over the last five years doing just the side bank thing. And and I just don't do fall or spring. It's one of those from you know, from March 1st all the way through December. We catch them on the side, and you know, there's been a lot of work put into that and a lot of technique, a lot of prep. And I've talked about that, you know, before how much prep goes into it. But I mean, I I just live and breathe this, and and it's just something that's a huge passion of mine. And, you know, I'm already thinking right now about my next outing and you know how we're gonna go about that. So no, I mean, listen, I had guys help me out along the way and you know, point me to a spot or two. And but you know, I think when you really, really get a chance to go out on your own, which I I very seldom fish with anybody, and and it's not really because of the spot burn thing. I mean, most of the guys that I do fish with, they're just as protective of areas as I am. You know, it's it's just more about kind of just sharing a little bit of information because I know I had a tough go of it for a while, but once certain things start to click and you see patterns develop year after year, and for certain areas, it's you know, when you put that initial work in, it's okay. But you know, I've spent years, you know, months out of the year, not as a waste of time, but you know, I really, really pick my spots when to go now. Sometimes I'll I won't go for weeks at a time because I don't like the moon or I just don't like certain tide heights on certain sodanks, but you know, I've learned to fish smarter now and not harder, not that we don't fish hard, but you know, a lot of those days with just going out just to go, uh uh, you know, I I kind of don't do a whole lot of that anymore. Right. I just really pick those really prime opportunities and target those. And and I've been really, you know, really, really successful. And and this year was definitely one of those years, especially midsummer was fantastic for me.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 6:21

So you know, I I I think you bring up an interesting point. So the the time on the water is a big thing, but I think you look at time on the water a little bit differently. I know I do, and I I actually have a video where I say time on the water doesn't matter. And and what I'm what I'm claiming in that is you know, people say just go out and fish and put in your time. Well, that it has to be productive time, right? Correct. If if you're just gonna go down and you're gonna hit one sod bank and you're gonna fish it through every tide for eight hours, 12 hours, that that's putting in time, but that's the wrong kind of time, right? You you need to understand what you're looking for and you need to be you need to make the most of the time that you have out there.

Chris Matuson 7:01

Yeah, I think that I I I believe that that's kind of pointless. I mean, I I don't really go uh much more than an hour and a half. That's usually my window. My window is probably even smaller than that, maybe like 40 minutes. I I know, right? But see, I'm lucky because the furthest spot I fish is is about 12 minutes from my house. So, you know, I I got it made the location I live at, I live right outside Summers Point between Summers Point and and Agarbara Township border. But, you know, uh I uh many days years ago out there for two, three, four hours, and you say, Oh man, here we here yesterday, I'm just you know, if I throw long enough, something's gonna show up. And and that's um sometimes that's the case, but you know, I found that uh year after year, if I just choose these certain windows in certain locations, they tend to pay off. And you know, I used to kind of get not uptight, but you know, antsy about going, like, oh man, uh, let me just go just to go. Well, now I'll occupy myself with something else, either with my cars or I'll I'll find another activity because that that you know, I used to go at low tide. That's a great time to go, you know, to really kind of check out the water, look at the flats, see, you know, where their structure. But yeah, small windows and that's it. But I agree back to your point about the the the time on the water. A lot of that can be wasted time, right? So, you know, I I see guys that, you know, they're out there, I've been out here four hours and I haven't had a touch. Well, I don't know why you're still out there after four hours, because four hours I'm already home doing another activity or I'm back in bed or or whatnot. But you know, like this summer, there were times where there was a 20-minute window and uh 20 minutes it happens, it shuts down, and I go back the next day, just follow the tide another hour later for 20 minutes, and and that's that. I mean, I I obviously enjoy it enough where I could stay out there for hours, but you know, I'd rather go back to Pennsylvania and and trowel fish all day if I'm gonna spend all day on the water. Right down here when you're gonna, you know, you're lugging a side bank in the middle of summer when it's 95 degrees. I'm not I'm not baking out there for three hours, nor, you know, is that window going to last that long, especially you know, when the water's hot and and fish are finicky. But yeah, you gotta put the time in. But I spent a lot of dumb time for a couple years and I wish I would have had that time back and fish a little smarter.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 9:23

So yeah, I I think we've all had our share of dumb time. Ed, you have any dumb time in your in your recent past?

Ed Gobbo 9:30

Recently, yeah, I spent a couple a couple hours chasing some some stripers that you know weren't there or just I wasn't throwing the right thing. Yeah. You know, but it's all learning. I take it as a learning experience, especially having the tackle company and stuff. If I don't catch, you know, then I'm at least learning you know, ways to work the lures and change, change up my presentation, and maybe I will catch something. So for me, it's not so much wasted.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 9:58

Yeah, I and and I'm I'm the different type, Chris. I I'm I'm in Pennsylvania and I'm you've mentioned some you know some people in the past and on social media, so I know you fish with a lot of Pennsylvania guys, right? So you know for for me it's an hour and a half to two and a half hours, depending on what time of year it is. So when I'm going down, I'm I'm down for the day, and I'm usually on the water eight to twelve hours.

Chris Matuson 10:20

Right.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 10:21

You know, I get my one day a week, but but what I do is I try to be smart about it. So I went out this past weekend with my buddy Derek, and he wanted to go for striper. I was like, uh, it's not gonna be great, but that's south wind. Now the wind didn't end up being where it was supposed to be, but right. So we fished for striper early and then we hit TOG for a while, and then I said, Okay, you know, before this wind really kicks up, let's let's hit these spots, which should be decent for midday striped bass.

Chris Matuson 10:49

Yep.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 10:50

And we we didn't get a touch, and then we got blasted by the wind and and everything. But you know, that that to me was you know, the striped bass was not that was not gonna be a striped bass day at all. It just the the conditions just weren't right for the area that we were gonna be in.

Chris Matuson 11:04

And those are probably the days that I pass on now. Like if it's just if the conditions are just that bad and it's just not gonna I, you know, I I don't look for ideal conditions, but if it's just definitely not gonna happen based on, you know, some of the wind that we've had the last couple of weeks, uh, you know, especially out front in the surf, the the wind has just been uh horrendous. And and I was talking to a buddy yesterday, and you know, there's so many missed opportunities this fall. The tide was right, lined up with dusk or dawn, you know, whatever the case was, good rips, same thing in the back, but but the wind just has just played havoc. But the last couple of years though, wind has been a problem, especially in the spring. You know, I I love some wind because I definitely believe some of the best striped ass fishing is when you have, especially in the back on the on the flat, is when you have some chop.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 11:57

Right.

Reading Banks And Beach Structure

Chris Matuson 11:57

In the summer, it's imperative because just still dead water with no oxygens going through it, you know, when the water is 80-some degrees, they tend not to come up and and and and feed in that shallow water. But you know, we had a couple days in in August where we had those mid-afternoon tornado warnings. And fishing for me was lights out. Uh I I went to a spot that that is a good May and June producer for me when you still got some migratory fish coming along front, but they'll you know also come through the bay in the same spot. I I went and tried it in August, and usually that spot shuts down by the second week of June, but it produced all summer this year, and I wound up getting some nice 35, 37-inch fish. 95 degrees, yeah. Heat index was 98 degrees, sun, uh, sun, sun out. And this was the this is this is one of the best this Yozuri Hydro Minnow has changed the game. You know, before it was just the uh the SP, well, this this one here with the the fatter profile and it swims shallower. Yeah, when I can't do a spook or a tactic anglers crossover or or a hydro from from Missouri, that's the that's the go-to, right below the surface. And and all summer, that that lure was wiped out with the biggest fish. It's crazy how how great it was. And like at a top speed, top speed as fast as you can crank it with uh a 15 mile an hour east wind in your face. It was yeah, it was crazy. But that that lure is fantastic. But you know, that there's a spot that uh let's go back four years ago. You couldn't go wrong for like a five-week period in the spring, late spring. It was just a really good producer, nobody around because it's a faraway spot. I've yet to see one person around, except guys that you know are really diehards, they kind of know you know where to go out there. But it was really good for a couple years, and then the last two years I really didn't do anything there. I went back the last couple springs and nothing. Last year, not a touch. And something told me this year, hey, you know what? Other spots have been producing good. Let's check this out again. And last week of May, same thing, it was just it was nuts. The the the more the wind blew in, the higher that tide came for a 45 to a 50 minute window. I had a buddy out there with me, and and they were just if you were throwing a spook, that's all they wanted. He was throwing poppers, they weren't touching it. I was throwing a spook, it was every every cast. And and we're talking, you know, some fish were 35, 37 inches, average size was probably 28 to 30. And I definitely hooked a couple fish that were over 40 inches, probably. But they were hooked in, they were sitting in these little cuts and these little coves, and with the casting angle, when you set the hook and they run a certain way, you just couldn't get, you know, you couldn't keep them on. But yeah, I mean, you know, back bay is just a lot of uh a lot of boots on the ground, and but I grew up fishing freshwater trout streams, and what I've learned is a lot of that stuff rolls over into bass ambush points, yeah, current eddies. So you know, I I was talking to a buddy of mine the other day, he's like, Oh, you know, um my uh you know, my uncle wants to fish with you. Can I give him your number? Well, sure, we could fish together, but it it's you know, when you start putting certain factors together to me, I think it's better when you figure it out yourself. I mean, yeah, we could go, we could hang out, and I'll show you a couple things, but you know, when you when you kind of go back to when you're a kid and I remember where my father used to take me and certain places we would fish for trout and certain places they would sit behind rocks or you know, below a fast watershoot or some rapids and stuff. And you know, I I use the same stuff when I look for bass spots, and and it's really the same, it's it's no different.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 16:04

Yeah, I think a lot of people they forget that, right? And and especially I think with Striper, you know, they they they think well they're migrating, so it's all luck. Okay, there is some luck. You you have to be if if you're especially if you're on the beach. In the back, though, it's a you know, to me, in the back, it's a little bit different. First of all, they're there near well, they're there all year. Doesn't mean you can catch them all year, but they're there. But but you have to remember, even the migrating fish, they're they're not just going straight up and down the coast, they're following bunker pots, they're feeding as they're migrating. So, so what's gonna draw the bunker in, or the bait fish or the mullet, especially in you know, if you're on the surf, where's the cut? You gotta look for where the bait fish are gonna be because they're gonna ambush them. They're amp, they are ambush predators. They're they're gonna come, they're gonna look for everything they can they can use. They're very they're very inclined to structure. I mean, they're called rock fish in other areas for a reason. It's because they love the structure, they love the ambush, and people need to approach it that way. If you can catch a flounder and you know why you're catching a flounder in a certain spot, not just drifting the middle of a channel, but you know how to find spots, you will be able to find out where a striped bass is. You will be able to find out where weak fish are. The same thing with with bass and trout, right? I mean, there are reasons that they're there, and I think that's you know, to your point though, it's great, you know, it's great when you can find it on your own and you can say, wait, this should work, and here's why, and then you get to test it. So I definitely appreciate that about fishing. And and you know, I I very, very rarely engage in conversations where it's like, well, just tell me where you went so I can go there.

Chris Matuson 17:51

Right.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 17:51

Um, a lot of people ask me that, but you know, I try to, you know, even in my videos, I'm like, it's not the spot. They're like, was it here? Like, it doesn't matter. Just look at what I'm telling you. Look at how the bottom is. Find bottom like that next to this type of point, and you're gonna find the fish. It doesn't matter where I was at that point.

Conservation Concerns In The Back Bay

Chris Matuson 18:08

Yeah, and I and I think reading that structure is is probably the number one key. You know, you could talk tides, we could talk wind and all that, but if you don't know how to read side banks and kind of know where that structure is, same thing in the surf. If you don't know where the trough is, or you don't know where you know the the rip is forming, you could stand there all day and and be a half a block away, or you could be on, they could be right in front of you on the side bank, but if your casting angle isn't correct and your retrieve speed is not what it needs to be, you could stand there all day and have them in front of you and and you'll just never hook up. So, you know, reading the structure, you know, I can't stress the importance enough of that, but you know, a lot of the banks that I go on, there's certain techniques that work and there's certain ones that don't. I mean, I was telling you about the spook, and you know, my buddy was throwing, you know, a ton of other stuff. Those fish were right there. They were right there in front of us. Some of them were, you know, 30-some-inch fish were maybe 10 feet off the bank. And, you know, he was cast after cast after cast, nothing. And, you know, you throw that spook out there and it was getting busted every time. You got to look at the way the current comes around the sidebank. I mean, it's no secret that, you know, points are obviously, you know, a good spot on an outgoing tide. I mean, that's been commercialized for years. Now, hey, you know, hit a sidebank at outgoing tide and that's the ticket. Well, uh, there's a little more to it than that. I mean, if it was that easy, everybody would be out there doing it regardless of the conditions. And, you know, I think there's bass on every bank, but I mean, they're not going to be around the entire bank. They're a lot of times they're just gonna be staged up in certain spots. And, you know, you just need to know how to read it. But the the self-gratification thing of of finding it on your own, that's the that's the great thing for me, is being able to do that and still continuing to do that. You know, and even if it's not straight bass, if I, you know, I'll I'll be back down in Dominican Republic next week fishing for tarpon and snook again down there. And, you know, I found this bite a couple of years ago and I knew they were there, but my first time fishing for them was a little difficult. I just kept throwing certain lures. And but I mean, once I figured it out, uh it's a ridiculous experience. But a lot of the techniques I use there is the same thing I use for striped bass up here. The the lures aren't the the lures don't change, right? They're exactly the same. Some of the areas I fetch, especially for snook down there in the surf or or back on the landlock ones, same thing with the you know, current coves, cuts, drop-offs, you know, anywhere there's cover. But you know, the the striped bass thing just has is is gotten really big in this area. That's a good thing, because I think it just, you know, I like to see people out fishing. I like to see people, you know, it it's a great pastime and and a great enjoyment to have. But you know, I think we need a little more conservation also, especially in the back, because that's and that's one reason, honestly, why I don't talk about it too much. And and a few years ago, I started talking to some people. I would do a poster two or a photo, and you know, I got blasted for it a couple of times. So, hey, you know, do you understand the impact of this? And uh it only took me maybe one season to figure out the impact because you just see every year now the decline, the decline, the decline in the back bay. You know, again, migratory forestry fish. If you're out in a boat, Raritan Bay, you're gonna say, hey, what are you talking about? Shortage. There's no shortage. I mean, it's lights out up here. If you're on the borderline in New York, no, there's no shortage of big fish up here. And well, uh those are fish that are, you know, a lot of those are centralized in that area. A lot of the migratory fish, I mean, they're you know, the like you were talking about bunker pods. I mean, there's a ton of bait up there. That's one thing we lack down here right now is bait. So that's one reason where it's tough to draw them in. But You know, if everybody was able to do this and be successful all the time, the people think the back bay is wiped out now. It would be totally wiped out. I mean, it's uh you know, I I haven't kept a fish in I want to say probably three and a half years. I caught two back-to-back 37-inch bass at the end of July three years ago. The second one I couldn't revive and was kind of hooked kind of bad. So that one had to be a sacrifice. But other than that, I haven't I haven't kept a bass in 20 years and I don't have any desire to, you know, I just think that they're worth more swimming away than they are putting them on the table. And again, I have a lot of disagreements with people about that. You know, oh, what's the matter with providing for your family? I I don't know, go eat something else. I mean, striper tastes good, but it's not worth to me sacrificing the stock that we do have. I was seeing some some post the other day, and you know, live spot is a really good bait for right now in the back bay. And you know, the water gets cold, you have these cold fronts that get down the deeper water, and you know, it's great, man. They're out there catching a lot of fish, but we're also sacrificing a lot of fish with this bonus tag program and everything else. And you know, there's no wardens out anymore. I mean, you don't see any game wardens out. You see like maybe three stories a year that get posted on Facebook of guys that were caught poaching or over limit or whatever. You know, if we had more of that, maybe some of it would stop. But you know, there's spots in December that I see every night I drive by, and there's guys fishing in those bread baskets up on top of bridges. And you it's in my opinion, maybe I'm wrong. People differ there's only one reason why you're fishing there. You know, you you're you're you're catching dinks out of the channel, and you know, they're they're they're getting hauled all the way up and they're putting them in bags and they're taking them away.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 23:57

So I mean, yeah, they're they're running them into the trunk of the car. And you know, I I actually I think it was last summer, it wasn't this summer, I ran into a New Jersey conservation officer for the first time in my life. I'm 48, and I've been since I was born, I've been going to Stone Harbor up until the past couple of years. Never once did I ever meet in person or see in person a conservation officer. Guy came up to me and I was so excited. I said, You I said, You want to see my registry? He's like, No. I was like, Oh, you want to check my fish? He's like, Did you catch any? I was like, Yeah. He's like, Congrats. He's like, I'm not here for you. He's like, who around here is not doing what they're supposed to do? I said, you know what, I'm not sure. I just got my kayak out of the water. I said, but you might want to check over there because they got a minivan and and twice somebody's come back to it or something. And he was down there for a while, so I think he I think he found some people pulling out and they were using a cast net. So it's horrible.

Chris Matuson 24:59

I you know, I I just don't and in the river, it's the same way in the spring. I mean, you know, in in in March and April, you know, when you got the schoolies that are starting to bite, you can't tell me all those fish are being released either. I mean, I fished the Great Egg Harbor River a lot, and you know, compared to 25 years ago, we don't get we don't get any run up there compared to what we used to have. And whether that's because of fish depletion or you know, maybe they just don't run up there as phone anymore. I don't, I don't know. You know, we we we outlawed, you know, we can't live line herring anymore. Not that I ever really did it that much, but you know, they say, oh, well, there's a herring shortage. Right. So we don't have as many fish going up there to, you know, chasing bay to listen, there's no herring shortage. I've seen herring the last couple of years that, you know, you could walk across the Great Lake Harbor River from one side to the other on it. And and not, you know, we're talking, you know, herring that are, you know, they're big sized.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 25:55

They're huge.

Chris Matuson 25:55

So yeah, there's no shortage of those. I mean, you know, I I did get one about uh a 30-pound bass two years ago out of there on a plug, like two feet in front of me, just just whale to Zuri broken back that I was, yeah, so great fish, like up on the flat. But other than that, I mean, I haven't caught in I haven't caught many fish out in the river, you know, over 30, 35 inches. And you know, I'm out there a lot in the spring, and I'm out there at a really, really good private spot that I go out there with a buddy of mine. And again, years ago it was kind of lights out, but now it's you know, you got to put a lot of extra work in. And uh, you know, we a lot of us put a lot of that time on the water. So, you know, do we want to share that? No. Do we want to, you know, uh yeah, there's enough of fish to go around. I I don't really believe that either. So you kind of just keep it tight to the cuff and you know, you don't give too much out. But you know, I know there's a lot of you know, younger anglers that you know they want to get started in fishing and they go and you know, they don't catch anything and they get burned down and say, Oh no, you know, I I don't catch anything, I don't even want to go fishing. So, you know, if we can help a couple people and just you know talk about some lures and you know, kind of just things to look for. I mean, you know, that's that that's kind of what I try to do now and just kind of give some generic information because I mean I wasn't really given detailed information and uh you know I made the mistake of asking a few guys back years ago, hey, you know, where did you go? I really caught a yeah, caught a tough time. But again, I I didn't I wasn't doing it enough at that point because I I kind of I did the bodybuilding thing for like 20 years. I kind of got away from fishing for a long time. And but when I got hurt, you know, five years ago, I had to give that up. So, you know, I I really got back into this heavy. And but in that time gap, you know, you went from really, really, really good fishing to like this this horrible depletion which we see now. Then I understood that like, listen, this is not the way it was before. So we're not gonna talk about this. We're not gonna talk about spots, we're not gonna talk about, you know, a whole lot of anything, but you know, the stock definitely is a problem, but you know, we definitely need to do things to to to fix that. Because I'm afraid in another four or five years we're gonna be in really, really bad shape back in the bay. And you know, that's uh, you know, flounder's another issue. You know, we talk about, you know, the you go out and catch 50 flounder, right? And and and you got three legal size ones there. You know, why is that? Is that because there's just a shortage of adult flounders or a shortage because you know, people kept everything at one time? I don't, I don't know. Weak fish is the same way, you know, in the late 90s.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 28:34

Devastated.

Chris Matuson 28:35

The late 90s, I mean, you could go off any sidebank of Well, the smaller ones are. I mean, you know, but but you know, we could in the late 90s, early 2000s, we could go on any sidebank from Long Beach Island, you know, down way past where I live. And you know, eight, nine, ten pounders, schools of them were were not rare at that point. You know, even in the surf, you know, it was wasn't bad to go out there and and and catch a couple or in the inlets. A couple years ago, I got one, you know, she was dead for a couple hours before I, and that wasn't a strike bass. So it's keeping the one fish in 20 years, the weak fish is the exclusion. But that was 31 uh 30 and a half inches and and eight pounds. That was after she was dead for a couple hours. But I you just you don't see weak fish that size. No, so so the the the spikes are kind of making a comeback, but again, you're like, oh that one fish limit. But a lot of people I see catching those spikes is uh got that one fish. How much are you really getting off of that one fish? So to me, sacrificing, yeah, sacrificing that fish to me, I I just don't I don't get it. You know, I have a spot, yeah. I have a spot in September that I go every year, and I can get bass, flounder, and weak fish all mixed in together. It's a nice little tidal pool. I could see other people fishing, but you know, they kind of don't bother with me, and they probably think, oh, this guy's all the way out there, he's really not getting anything, but really it's the opposite. You know, there's a maybe a half hour, 40-minute window on on certain moons, and it produces real well. And I I've never thought about keeping a weak fish. Last year I got one 25, 26 inches. I never thought about keeping it. This year I got it one night, I got in on night school of them, every single one back in the water. So I don't maybe it's just mentality, maybe maybe I'm wrong, but I just I just don't see the the logic and all that. I don't I don't get it.

Ed Gobbo 30:29

I think it has to do with the angler and and the ethics that they're even raised with. You know, you you see people, you know, when they're when they're doing their poaching thing and whatever, you see little kids involved. So they learn it from a small as you know, a young age. Right. I think they're just I think people that do that kind of stuff, they're just not you know, not on the up and up to begin with. So they're just gonna do whatever they want.

Chris Matuson 30:52

And like trout fishing, we were a kid. I mean, we were always when I go with my father, we'd always keep our limit, always keep our limit and you know, go home, cook them up, even when uh my first couple years I moved after I moved down here after high school, still go back there and I still go back there and fish every year. And for a while, we were still keeping fish, bringing them, eating them. But I just got older after a while. I mean, you you saw that every year they started stocking less. It was harder and harder to catch. So it's like, hey, you know what? If I could put these couple back in and they turn out to, you know, stay in here for a couple more years, grow a little bit bigger, give somebody else some pleasure at catching them. I mean, that's kind of the satisfaction I get now. I've I posted a lot of videos this year of a lot of fish being released, and you know, you slow motion them and you get the big tail wave and you, you know, they're splashing out of the water. I mean, I just, you know, I just there's something in me that that kind of went off maybe 10 or 15 years ago that I just love, I just love to release fish. I just think it's just such a, you know, hey, you did me a solid, you got on the end of my line, you know, you gave me a good five or ten minutes, and you know, here's the way I pay you back, and and now I let you go to swim another day. I mean, obviously, some fish get, you know, they they get uh foul hooked or bad hooked. I mean, that's just kind of you know the the way nature runs. But you know, we talk about that bonus tag program. A lot of guys I know they'll buy those tags and not use them just to, you know, because there's only a certain number that are given out. But uh, you know, I I don't I don't know. You know, certain bait shops, you know, they they they promote all that and yeah and whatever, but but at the same time, I look at it as well, uh, you know, that's great, you need to make a business, but if you're helping to deplete the population, well, that's only gonna hurt you in the long run. But I think it's just more about that immediate gratification and sales, and and you know, I'm I'm friends with just about every bait shop owner. So I mean that's it, you know, they they run their business the way they run it, but you know, it's that's that's a tough, just a tough pill for me to swallow. And that's a lot why a fish alone too, is I don't want to see people keeping fish. Certain areas I just don't go to, they produce real well, but I'd rather go out by myself and and and just do the experience that way. I just don't want to see you know those those fish being killed at this point, especially bass.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 33:08

So yeah, I I uh I think I keep about one bass a year. It's usually because I hooked it bad and it didn't revive.

Chris Matuson 33:18

Yep. And you're also driving driving two hours to come down and fish eight hours. So so it's okay then at that point.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 33:23

Well, I I actually don't think it is okay. I I mean personally for me, right? I I I I take the stance. If it's legal, I'm not gonna complain if you do it, you know, unless there's some really weird situation. I don't know, there's probably an exception. Weak fish, I will not keep a weak fish again unless it won't provide. I actually stopped targeting them. But interestingly enough, the the recruitment on those is positive for this, I think the third year in a row. Correct.

Chris Matuson 33:53

Rumbers are looking a lot better, right?

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 33:54

They are looking better. So I I have hope for those. That was my grandfather's favorite fish to go for. We used to go blue fishing, and his favorite thing was when you found the blues, you had to get under them because that's where the weak fish were, uh offshore.

Chris Matuson 34:07

So and they just fight a totally different way. Oh, they do. They they kind of fight like freshwater trout. They just they just, you know, they just that and then once you set the hook, they just you know immediately start running. They're gone. We used to we used to get we used to get them up, we used to climb down on the icebreakers, the last bridge going into Long Beach Island on on the uh the road going in there. We would pull off and park at the restaurant underneath. We would walk all the way up on top of the bridge, yeah, and and and cut the locks on the icebreakers and go all the way down and and we'd get down there for outgoing tide. And I mean, we had weak fish down there that this was before I guess most people started using braids, so we were still using mono. And you know, some of them were just so big as soon as you immediately set the hook, they just bite right through the line with the you know the fangs. Yeah. So I love to see those days come back. You know, maybe if they keep it at one fish limit and you know, people start throwing some of those smaller ones back, we'll we'll see those days again. But yeah, I unfortunately, I I think those really, really good weak fish days. I think they're I don't think we'll ever see that again. But you know, if you could bring back a stock where, hey, let's go out and see if we can get a couple weak fish tonight and actually target them and actually get a couple instead of just like incidental catches in between bass or flounder, uh, that'd be great because that's a great fish to catch.

Ed Gobbo 35:26

Yeah. See, now we we did have those nights in the spring with the weak fish. There was a good solid week that that's really all we were catching out on the jetty. I did see a lot of fish go home, but I don't even know why people keep them, they don't taste good to me.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 35:41

But I think they taste okay, but they don't keep at all. Like you you need to eat it immediately, right away, right?

Chris Matuson 35:48

Right.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 35:48

Yeah, you don't want to freeze that. I mean, I'm sure somebody's figured out a way to do it. You know, they have a great fight. I'll I'll throw them all back. I I actually prefer to now instead of weak fish, I actually try to target specs and reds up here. You know, they're really, really hard to get. They're here, they're really hard to get and hard to find, but that's that's kind of what I've been doing. And actually, I came up empty on both in New Jersey this year. I've caught some further south in Maryland, but not not up here. But you know, uh but but but that's the way that I look at it. So so back to the to the keeping them and letting them go. You know, I I'm not big on keeping a lot of fish. I do keep flounder, but I don't keep my limit all the time, and I do throw back a really good percentage of of the keeper size, especially some of the bigger ones. There's nothing better than catching your limit, meaning whatever you planned on keeping for the day, and then throwing back a 24-25 incher. Absolutely. You know, you see the 18-inch sitting on your stringer, and you're like, all right, you're going back, and I'm gonna look for you next year. Love that.

Chris Matuson 36:55

Yeah, and you know, it's it's why it brings up you know the the spring, and you know, the spring was this was probably one of the better springs that there uh has been in a long time, especially for for bass. I mean, May and June was just ridiculous. The the the size of the fish, the amount of fish, just uh enormous amount all up and down the beach, you know. But I I'm just not a crowd guy. I I don't like to fish around a lot of people. And you know, again, I stayed back in on the side and I did really good back there. You know, I you know, 40, 45, 50 inch fish, that's you know, that's a trophy fish anywhere. You know, but I was getting them, you know, 10 inches shy. You know, 10 inches shy in the back, and yeah, you know, nobody around. Most of the pictures I take are selfies because there's nobody, you know, with me. Once in a while, I'll have somebody there that can get a nice shot. But you know, so that one right there, that was the first one three years ago in July. Buddy of mine was out with me, and we fished for a couple hours from uh right around dawn. Tide wasn't high enough yet, and he said, Oh, I'm going to go down the road for a while. And I stuck it out 10 minutes later, back to back 37 inches. But yeah, and and all those fish are showing there, they're probably not even 15 minutes apart from each other. It's funny, some of those pictures I don't remember where they were because my selfies are I just will not burn a spot. That's actually a fantastic bass right there that was a surf-caught bass on a local beach last fall. This was the end of May this year. That was a 37-incher on the side back there.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 38:31

Yeah, and the Harris Book. That to me is like the cool thing because uh you would you talk to a lot of people and they would swear you can't catch that on the side. But but you do. It's just that most people are just back there dunking bait, thinking that they're gonna be picking those up, but that's not how they're behaving when they're back there. So and this one junk.

Chris Matuson 38:51

And this one right here was August in one of those tornado warnings right there. That was a 32 inch. That was that was on the beach down here this fall. Everybody last fall, everybody said, Oh, there's no beach, they're replenishing. Well, I you know, I I looked out and not didn't look out, but you know, I kept reading the beach and found some some some cuts that didn't look like anywhere else, and they were loaded with fish, especially speckled trout were there too. And this was the the biggest one I got this summer. It was 98 degrees. I wish you could see like how wet my shirt was, but I was just I was soaked. That's 2:30 in the afternoon, and that's a 37-incher on on a uh on a hydro minnow, top top speed in in two and a half feet of water.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 39:31

Crazy. Well, yeah, and that and I love how you blur the background there.

Chris Matuson 39:36

And it's a shame because like I it's it's such a better picture without that blur, right? But you know, that's for you. Yeah, when you don't blur it and you're a local, uh some people still won't realize where it's at. But yeah, I mean, I know that I'm not gonna, you know, front from it. I know years ago I looked at people's pictures and said, man, I'm I'm zooming in, I'm looking at this little piece of grass here. What does this condo look like? And then you go on Google Maps and listen, if you look hard enough, you can figure out where it's at. But you know, this that's one of those spots there where I'm just not in a position to to give that spot up. And you know, it doesn't always produce, but for me, mid-summer, I I can still get spring-sized fish in the summertime when the conditions are right. So that's that's definitely a fantastic, fantastic spot.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 40:26

That's beautiful fish, too. Man, absolutely.

Bigger Plugs For Bigger Bass

Chris Matuson 40:30

Yeah, and and that one and another one, like there's no broken lines on those fish at all. You know, I don't whether they were, you know, migr migrating early or whatever the case was, but they definitely were not riverborne fish. That was in the surf last year, too. Yeah, we found some specs mixed in. We found a big redfish mixed in. Yeah. You know, you see a lot of smaller ones out front, or you see the bigger ones that people take on bait, but it was a uh I didn't catch it. I was a block down. I was with Lee and Seth Wakefield and uh was it Seth that caught it? Of course it is. Uh why would it be anybody else? And it was a legit like 28 to 30 inch here. That was a just just a beast of a bass right there, November last year. Same place on the beach. That's that's back bay. I think that's that was November last year. I was still getting them on top order in November. That's uh that's May of I think four years ago. I went up in the surf earlier in the night. Wind was too bad, it was all weedy. Met my buddy back in the bay, and Magdahs were the ticket.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 41:33

So so let's let's talk about that real quick. So one thing that I'm noticing is you're using the larger baits in or the larger lures in the back. You're not using spook juniors, are you? Yeah, let me let me change the screen up real quick so people can see this.

Chris Matuson 41:53

The regular size. This is the same, so it's a regular size, the the saltwater edition ones, but these are the same ones I target like world-class tarpon with when I go on vacation. So, and you can see, I mean, it's just it's just like tour to hell. I've I've caught so many fish on this plug, but no, I don't I don't shrink down at all. You know, the same thing like with the hydro minnow, the same size I use in the surf, I use in the back. This is a smaller usouri hydro popper, but you know, it's still one ounce, yeah, four inches, but they make a five and a half inch, I think it is. And we were actually catching more on that than on this one. Yeah, I I think a lot of people scale down, you know, the tactical angler one, the crossover popper. But no, I I again I think the assumption is is hey, the bay always holds smaller fish. You know, uh in some regards, you know, they're not quite as big as out front, but if you want big fish, you know, I'd listen, these uh northeast jigs, my guys there have been so generous to me over the last couple of years. I mean, these are these are lights out all all year round. But if I'm gonna go for big fish, I I've learned to throw bigger plugs and and they'll produce. I mean, you know, you gotta remember how big the mouth is. And even if you're using a six or an eight-inch plug, you got a fish with a mouth this big. What's a six or an eight-inch plug? They just inhale it. So especially when you could find some adult bunker coming through the side banks in the early spring. Uh, you know, you want to throw a plug that's that size. You start throwing those little dink ones, it won't even give them any notice. Uh, top water plugs are the same way. You know, the bigger weight that I'm causing, the more commotion. Uh, that seems to be what they follow. So small lures in the back are just in the river early, early on when it's still cold. I'll use smaller lures, but once the water starts to warm up, no, I I don't scale down, so not at all.

Ed Gobbo 43:54

We are getting some questions flowing through. I don't know if you want to uh shoot through them. James is asking. First, you always use artificials. And I think we know that it's correct.

Chris Matuson 44:04

Yeah, I haven't used I haven't used bait or live bait in probably four years. The only time the last time I used live bait was when we had that big bluefish run in Atlantic City, I guess, 2016, where you know it was just every day it was 10, 15 pounders, and I would, you know, I was using chunks. But then once, you know, they started hitting plugs, we went right to plugs. But for bass, though, uh I don't use, I don't eel fish. You know, I know that eels are great for for big bass, and that was the big bite this year in certain areas was the eel bite. But you know, and again, I'm not, I hope nobody takes my perspective as, you know, hey, he's cracking on certain guys. That's just not the way I enjoy the fish. I enjoy, you know, a Chris Balavan, who owns tight lines in Summer's Point. We had a conversation a couple months ago, and and he said he phrased it exactly the way. Hope he didn't copyright this, but this is exactly the way you look at it. You create a strike when you use an artificial, you create that strike. When you use live bait or or or stick bait, it's not that way. You create that strike, so the strikes are more ferocious, and to me, it's more it's more rewarding. But no, it's it's artificial for me. Even when the water's you know 40 degrees in the back, or if it's a really, really cold winter and and and March 1st comes, I I don't throw blood worms. I don't nah, I get them on artificial year-round.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 45:31

So yeah, and and look, it's it's all of what you prefer, right? We had Base Eye Dave on.

Chris Matuson 45:37

He's a bait, exactly very successful, yep, successful, fantastic. Yeah, absolutely. And you know what? Listen, there's a lot of missed opportunities, probably where I don't catch because I don't do the bait thing, but but I'm okay with that, yeah. Because again, it's it's more rewarding for me personally, the way I fish. Again, that's that you know, it's okay. And and I used to fish that way. I mean, I and even when I freshwater fish, I still fish that way sometimes. I take my son out, we use minnows, we use shiners, you know, whatever the case is. Moaches, but when I target bass, I just think it's it's better strikes, and it's uh it's just better for me when I use them that's right. It's more challenging.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 46:19

So yeah, I think it definitely is more challenging, at least it is for me.

Chris Matuson 46:25

And it's versatile. I mean, you know, you you got the hydro that that goes, you know, down to two feet. I mean, I just usually do it right below the surface. The tactical angle of crossover popper, I mean, you can do surface, you could do subsurface. The spook for me this year, if I didn't, if I wasn't using spooks this year, I wouldn't have caught probably 80% of the fish that I did. It's it's crazy how you could throw a popper, they wouldn't touch it, but you threw a spook and they couldn't stay off of it. That that's you know, and and that's an it's not the easiest. I mean, it took me years to figure out you know how to work a spook really, really good. So, you know, you you tend to work it too fast, too slow, too much slack in the line, you know, a fast action rod versus a medium action rod. It's it's you got to figure it out. But when you can figure out how to work them the right way, especially with finicky fish, that's the go-to lore to go to. They, you know, you could throw bait in some of those spots all day, or throw some of the and they watch you. You throw that spook across the surface and you got that wake, they can't let it go.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 47:26

So so right now, people are writing down their Amazon orders so that they can. I know, I know for me, I have never tried the crossover. So I'd be interested in one of the it's got a crazy rattle chamber in it, and you know, it kind of looks like the your Zuri hydro popper.

Chris Matuson 47:47

It it it looks like on the face there, it's yeah, but this one, but the the uh the TA one, you can work it below the surface too, which is which is good because you get some of those windy, windy days back on the side, and you know that they're there, the bass are there, but you just can't get a top order plug to work, right? That's skipping that that will go through uh right underneath the surface, and you could do that side to side motion right underneath, and yeah, it definitely works. But that's a that's a plug that you know I think a lot of people don't use that way, they just use it on top, and that's it.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 48:20

Right. You can definitely see you get to see it rather than I mean when you're going subsurface, you have to feel right. It's it's a little bit more difficult, a little bit more nuanced than you know, working in topwater. And and quite frankly, I would probably do topwater more just because it is again, it's easier. I can see what it's doing, I can hear what it's doing.

Chris Matuson 48:41

Yes, and that's addicting that block correct, and and and going back to the strike again, you know, when you're for me, when I'm using bait, I'm standing there, I'm watching the rod or I'm feeling the line, I'm not seeing any type of visual. You know, well, some of the biggest satisfaction I get out of going fishing is the mental picture that you capture from the experience. So whether it's a top order blow up strike bass here, or it's gonna be, you know, a 70-inch tarpon blow up next week because it's happening again. You know, those are those those are what keep bringing me back. You know, if you don't taps on the line or just, you know, oh man, I took my bait, he came off. Again, that's fine for some people for me. That's not what keeps me going back. That that creating the strike and and seeing that wake come up behind it, you know, and you're just waiting, you're just waiting, he's coming, he's coming, he's coming. And then you stop that plug dead, and they just, you know, I ambush it. Uh what's better than that?

Ed Gobbo 49:40

Yeah, or when they blow up on it and and then you have to start working it again, and then they get five times, right?

Chris Matuson 49:45

Yeah, and and the spook is is was great for that this year, where you know, they blow up on it all the way out and five times five, and just you know, you and another thing with these lures, you know, don't give up at the end. A lot of people they throw them out three-quarters of the way, and that's it. I I I work them all the way to the bank because they will chase it all the way to the bank and just especially if you stop it and just hit it last second. So that's one mistake I made years ago was like I like to fish fast. I'm just a I'm not a slow fisherman, I just have a faster retrieve. But I used to say, okay, well, now I'm out of the target area, so let me just get it in real quick and let me cast again. You can wake them up in the target area and then they'll follow it out of the target area. Yeah, they'll hit it right at the bank. And uh, yeah, that's definitely one mistake I made for years. I don't make anymore. I work it all all the way in.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 50:35

So and hold the rod tight because when they strike it right at your feet, it feels 10 times harder than when they strike 30 yards out and rip it right out of your hands.

Chris Matuson 50:45

Yeah, you know, it drag setting, you know, it all comes into play. It's not I I had a surf bass I lost two weeks ago, and that was because of my drag setting. I wasn't expecting because we hadn't had a good surf down here this year. I know up north it's been you know on and off, but down here it's it's been poor to say the least. But I had a really, really nice fish hooked on. He got down in the rip, and yeah, I didn't back my drag off enough, and and he spit the hook. And I'm sure that's probably one of the better bass that I'll have an opportunity to catch this fall. And and I kind of lost that opportunity. But you know, the the drag setting and having a a good solid reel, that's another important thing, is just the equipment. You got to have equipment that's gonna stand up against, you know, a 15 or a 20-pound fish in the back blowing up last second, because I've had them where you know they'll just they'll rip the drag right out of the reel, or you know, you'll just you'll crack your reel seat or something. You just you have to be prepared for it, and you have to hold on tight, no doubt.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 51:47

Yeah, yeah. We have a question. I I want to do this question from from Bill. Bill is actually the one that rescued Derek and I and got us back to our trucks this weekend. Nice.

Ed Gobbo 51:57

He gets extra questions then.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 51:59

Yeah, he can send a text and and have any anything answered that he wants. So if you only go out for an hour or so, what are the optimum conditions that point to that hour to fish?

Chris Matuson 52:12

So for me, I have a couple different sod locations that the same tide doesn't work on all of them. So is if I know which all right, I'm let me let me figure the best way to explain this. So for me, it's usually outgoing tide, but certain parts of that tide depend on what bank I'm on. Some banks I definitely need a moon phase to be happening to get a certain water height to bring fish up on those flats because it's a real, real, real shallow flat, but then the water's gonna run out really, really fast once the tide turns. So, you know, some of those spots, it's a it's a 25 to a 30 minute window. There's other spots where you know you maybe have an hour or two. So to me, I you know, you gotta look at the moon, you gotta look at the wind, because if you have an outgoing tide and you have a wind pushing that water out, I've had it where you know I've gone one day and I've been waist high in water. I'll go back the following day at the same time, same tide, but with a west wind coming 15, 20 miles an hour, and that water's already blown out. So really it's just you know, you got to know what produces on that spot because again, it some side banks work the same, but you know, am I standing facing the north, my standing facing east, standing facing south? So, you know, do which direction do I want the wind? A south wind on the side, at least for me, is never good because it just junks up the bay. It it really kicks a lot of bottom up and it just it it it it muddies it up. Some banks, you know, I need a northeast wind, other ones I need a west wind. And there's some days if I don't get any wind, I just don't go. So you just really got to know that area and uh that window it produces, that's what you got to pick it. I'm I'm not trying to like beat around the question, right? But you but it it really is just depending on on how that bank produces.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 54:25

So so let me ask you this.

Chris Matuson 54:28

So you're what's all the places I all the places I fish, you know, most of those fish all come from less than three feet of water.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 54:39

Okay, that's what I was gonna ask. Because many people I think in South Jersey, especially, a sod bank means that it you're standing and one foot in front of you is 12 feet deep.

Chris Matuson 54:51

Well, some well, yeah, some spots are, but when that's not what you're looking at. No, because this stuff isn't gonna work. I mean, I'm not gonna use I'm not saying it won't work, but I'm not using a Zara spook in in 12 feet of water. Uh the the odds that they're gonna come up 12 feet, I assume they will, but it takes a lot of casting.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 55:12

Yeah, they will. Yeah, it takes a lot of casting, you know.

Chris Matuson 55:17

I'm gonna go and I'm gonna use a leadhead if I'm gonna fish, you know, like that. But no, most of these places I'm fishing, there's there's some current there, there's flats. And yeah, again, all the bass I hook you around, even when the tide is up, it's no more than waist than waist deep. Sometimes that water's only knee deep. So trust me, the the visuals that you get when you get that strike in water that shallow from you know a 35 or 37-inch fish, when he's in two feet of water, he's got nowhere to go. And he's just you know, flapping and flapping and flapping, and just trying uh as fast as he can to find that deeper water. You know, so the the first challenge is just finding them, the second challenge is hooking them, the third challenge is to keep them on long enough before the hooks get shaken out and they kind of get their bearings and now you start fighting them regular because that whole flipping and flaring that they do in the end in the air, that's where you lose most of the fish at. Yeah. You know, spooks, it's not it's not a great thing that they have, you know, three hooks, and sometimes I remove, you know, a set of them or whatnot. Sometimes I'll go with just one set in the front. But you know, when they start flapping around, then they can get a lot of hooks in them and and whatnot. But you know, when you fish in the shallow water, yeah, it's it's a lot of it is it's it's a small window based on just that fact. Right. That water is not going to be there for very long. So, you know, you got to look at your schedule and say, hey, I'm gonna have to give this up today, or I'm gonna have to change my plans around. Because if you if you miss that window, you miss it. So there's a lot of things in life that I give up at certain times of the year to go out and get on these bites, but that's what you have to do. You could go to the same bank that I leave an hour later and stand there for the next really 23 hours and not get a touch, right? Some of them are just so tidal and wind dependent.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 57:13

It's so I imagine you're catching a lot of bluefish in the spring when they're coming through because they're coming through the same spots.

Chris Matuson 57:20

Well, not the last couple years, so uh no, right. So so going back to like 16, 17, 18, well, even well before that. Yeah, I the the same spots where I was getting bass, I was getting gator blues, and yeah, you know, that was 16 and 17 was really great. And again, I did that years ago, but I'm talking, you know, the just the the last couple recent years. But yeah, I mean, I was getting 15-pound bluefish mixed in with those bass on flats of of water less than three feet on top water. So crazy. And and I've hooked in the ones that at least one that I've lost that had to been pushing 20 pounds. And after, you know, 12 or 14 minutes, I had that fish, you know, three feet in front of me, and I could just see like the last the last treble was in his mouth. I knew if he shook it one more time, that was it, and yeah, spit it out at me, and that's it. But yeah, you know, when we used to get the gators to come back there, it was really good. You know, a few of them pass through here or there, but yeah, they're they're the same spots, no different. Just a lot of times it's just the day, you know, the time of day, too. Some days, yeah. You know, people say, Oh, you can't get bass in the middle of the day.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 58:34

Sure, you can.

Chris Matuson 58:34

It's just not that's just not true. I mean, I think that for me, tide certain times of year tide-dependent is more important than than light. Sometimes, uh some parts throughout the year, it's definitely a dawn, dusk, or a cloudy day bite. But no, definitely there's you can catch big fish during the day. That's you just have to know where to go and and what the presentation is going to be and and be patient. You know, you go 10 minutes, oh, there's nothing here that's not no, because you know what that current starts kicking in the next five minutes, or that wind starts to pick up and puts a little chop, you could go from having nothing to you know a lights out outing. So just got to wait it out just a little bit.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 59:12

Yeah, I I think they're there more than people realize. They just assume because they didn't hit their two lures. Well, I I think uh I imagine that in your bag you have a ton of different options and multiples of each when you head out there. So you're you're cycling through until you're finding what's working, and then you're probably saying, Well, conditions changed, I'm I'm gonna go back to the start.

Chris Matuson 59:34

So so definitely multiples of each. And I ran into that problem the other day where I lost a hydromino and and I didn't have another one with me, but I have but I have three more out of my garage, and and I usually don't make that mistake. Yeah, no, I usually bring at at least two or three variations of the same thing. I'm not really big on the color. I actually like white and clear better than any of those. You know, the other colors are kind of pretty looking and they're you know nice. I have a lot of custom plugs from friends that are that are plug makers, and you know, those plugs look great. The craftsmanship are fantastic. I'll probably never throw them because a lot of them don't throw well anyway, unless you're out in a boat. But no, I I usually bring you know two or three poppers, a couple of Zara spooks, a couple subsurface, and and a bunch of plastics because there's just you know, there's some days where they don't want to touch a plug, they want plastics. There's other days where they don't want plastics, they want plugs. I'm never I don't usually get caught short-handed out there because again, some of these side banks I'm walking 15 or 20 minutes in better have everything. Yeah, full waiters, you know, mosquitoes, uh, greenheads, mask on, spray. I mean, you just get in kind of tour alive, but you know at the end of the road, hopefully what's waiting for you. And you know, extra leaders, extra TA clips. Because again, I I've been in those positions where I've been on a sidebank or or you know, waist deep in the river, and you know, you're trucking through the mud, like, oh my God, I just got broken off. And now here we go again. I'm walking back, walking back, walking. So, you know, and whether it's now I carry, you know, not just one bag, but a couple bags, plastics in one, plugs in another, a really, really good belt, so I don't have to put a shoulder, shoulder bag on anymore, so I don't, you know, have that pressure on my neck or whatnot. I just keep everything on the waist and definitely no shortage of gear when you go out there now.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 1:01:26

Yeah, I well Ed can tell you I was out with him tog fishing and I ran out of jigs. Luckily, I was with the uh tog jig maker and he said, get her over here.

Chris Matuson 1:01:36

And hey knowing and knowing how often you get stuck with that too, right? And and how they dive down and fish and all that structure. And you know, that's another fish. I I hope that you know, years from now we're not having the same conversation about tog as we do. We will. I think we I think we absolutely because I don't and I don't think anybody thought, you know, years ago we'd have this discussion about uh about bluefish or about sea bass. I remember as a kid coming down and vacationing in Ocean City with my parents for the summer, and we go back to 12th Street fishing pier on the bay in Ocean City, and we just you know, we use squid and we're catching at the time you think they're small, but you know, these sea bass that are you know 15, 16, 17 inches long, you know, really, really fat. And it's like, you know, but you that's not really the objective fish are back there. If you know, we were trying to catch some some bass or or or bluefish or big sand sharks at nighttime back there, but now you know, sea bass, it's like, you know, what is that? I I don't even see them anymore. So I'm I'm hoping to're going to be the same way, but again, all the uh hoopla that gets put into tog fishing on social media. I don't know.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 1:02:53

Yeah, I so I think I've I've kept one this year through you know, it's funny. I threw back I I've been throwing them back, so I threw back one the other day on Saturday. My buddy caught the same fish right after that, and I have video evidence of it was the same exact fish. Caught it within 20 minutes, which tells me, you know, to me that was that was not only cool because he caught the same fish, but it was cool because it didn't care, it was back eating crabs within it when it was about 20 minutes later when it was about maybe 15 yards from where I caught it the first time, and it um you know, so to me, look, catch them if you want to go out and fish for them, catch them, and if you throw them back, they're probably gonna be pretty good, you know. Yep, and that and that was just evidence because it had a big a big Captain Hanks hook right through its face 20 minutes earlier, and it it just didn't care. I mean, and actually, another good example of it on Instagram, there is a uh an account called Drum Spots, and it shows where the multi where one one red drum, redfish, is caught multiple times. They show that all the time. You can tell because of the spots, and show the dates, and you know, within a week they're just caught multiple times. We're talking big, you know, 40 inches down there, right? But I I'm I'm afraid the tog's gonna go the same way, though. I mean, I'm afraid sheep's head's gonna come right behind it just as they're starting to establish themselves.

Chris Matuson 1:04:23

So we'll we'll uh and and yeah, and the the sheep's head thing, that's that's another, you know, that that's such a great fish. And I think a lot of people didn't even know that they were, you know, they were up here until a couple years ago. And I I obviously I think they're a little bit harder to catch than Togar. So it takes a little more a little more effort to yeah, a little more effort to catch those and and kind of locate them. But yeah, you know, I mean, listen, social media is great because it gets, you know, we get to do things like this, and and I've met so many nice people and you get to connect. And but and you know, I yeah, I mean I have that page and I post a lot of pictures, I do a lot of stuff on Instagram, and you know, but I'm I'm I'm proud of the fish I catch, I'm proud of the bites that I find. I'm I'm proud of the strikes that I create. It makes me happy. That's my you know, that's one of my things in life. It's it's not just a stress relief like it is for some people. It's just it's so rewarding. I was with my son in the truck tonight and we were going to Wawa to get a sandwich in and nature sounds in my SUV. It's like one of the things that you can pick. And he's like, Dad, leave us on, don't even put the radio on. And like just hearing like all these nature sounds in the background was like he was like, Wow, you know, that sounds like really cool, Dad. And I said, you know, this is what what happens when we go fishing. He goes with me sometimes. We do like the freshwater gig. But you know, that's the experience for me is just, you know, the the hearing, the seeing. It's not just the the the fishing and the catching, like that's a big part of it, but just that whole that whole experience for me. You know, I was up on a local beach a couple weeks ago with two buddies of mine, and a woman was Up there taking pictures. And it's funny because I was joking to my friend. I said, Oh, I wonder if she's taking pictures of the sunrise or she's taking pictures of us. So she came down to us and said, Hey, I hope you guys don't mind. I'm I'm taking some photos of our teacher, and I wanted to show my students pictures of fishermen. So I'm like, okay, sure, shoot away. So she takes like all these pictures. Most of them, you know, were just, I think one picture we posed for. The rest of them, she's just kind of taking pictures at at will. So I gave her my number before I left, and you know, she sent me a couple of them and just really, really good shots. Today I get a text message from the same woman. And here, I guess she teaches a painting class. And one of her students painted one of those photos. So that's pretty cool. She's going to have the girl sign it this week and she's going to get it to me. But it is like when you put the two together, you can't even tell the difference between the real photo and what this girl just drew. But but like even that day, it was so much weed on the beach, we didn't catch anything. But it was just such a rewarding experience to be out there with those guys who also don't keep anything, just true sportsmen. They just love everything about the sport. And you know, we had that happen to us that day, and it just made it rewarding, even without catching any fish.

Ed Gobbo 1:07:17

So I think the salt air has a lot to do with it. Once that once that air hits you, it's just like it just yeah, everything fades away.

Surf Tactics For Late Fall

Chris Matuson 1:07:27

And plus, and and any bass caught in the surf down here is a special fish because of how much work you have to put into it nowadays.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 1:07:35

Well, well, so let's so let's jump into the surf real quick. Got a couple questions about that. Let me put this one up there. You provide thoughts on surf fishing techniques for November and December.

Chris Matuson 1:07:51

So last year was probably one of the best falls I've had in 15 years down here. And it was again, it was all artificials. I didn't use any any any bait, Yozuri plugs. That that hydro minnow was fantastic. Actually, believe it or not, and then no lie, the hydro minnow never came off last fall. Every single fish, other than one fish I caught in a bucktail because it was really, really rough one day, every single fish last year came on that white hydro minnow. So, but again, you know, when you're fishing the surf, it's just like in the back. You got to know how to read the beach, you got to look for structure. You know, a flat beach, a freshly replenished beach, is not a good beach. So we're definitely not looking for that. But you know, if you kind of follow suit with what goes on up north, and you know, you look for troughs, you look for rips to form, you know, it to me, you kind of go at a lower tide and you can see what the structure is because when you're you're out there at high tide, everything looks the same. You can't really see where anything's at. But I learned it by going out on a new moon on a blowout tide, then I was able to kind of see the imperfections, as to say, in the beach. And you know, you go back and and you fish those areas when there's more water there, and you know, those areas uh at least for me produce. I just always look for a small stretch of beast beach that looks so much different than the rest. All the rest that looks the same, everybody else could have that. But that that one block or two that looks different, that when I throw my lure out, if I could reel it straight in and I don't feel any resistance, I'm just gonna keep moving, keep moving. If it's sweeping to the right or the left, I'm gonna keep going that direction because at some point you're gonna find that rip. And usually that's those are the things I work, and that's where I get fish sitting. So that's but it's and it's that way for any beach. Uh again, whether it's here, you know, it's not giving away anything. I'm sure there's a couple of my friends listening are like, oh man, why are you saying that? Why it's it's it's not a listen, you can look up any on-the-watered video or report, you know, how to read beaches, and you know, you just I you just look for a section of beach that's different from the rest and has the most water flow, and you know, that's tends to be where they're going to set. And again, uh some guys will argue with me, no, no, no, the sun can't be out. You got to be out there in the dark. Not one of those bass last year I caught in the dark. I I don't have any luck, at least the last two years, when it's completely dark. Most of those bigger ones were right at sunrise or not at first light. So as soon as I can really see where the lure is hitting the water, that's when I had the most luck. But yeah, just find those different beaches, you know, stretch a beach that looks different from the rust, and you'll find those bass there.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 1:10:42

Yeah, I think a big thing is, you know, I say this for flounder fishing. I look for things that are different.

Chris Matuson 1:10:47

Yep.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 1:10:47

And if the water at the top is different than what the water right next to it, that means something's different on the bottom, which means structure, which means whether you're on a kayak and you have a fish finder or a boat or you're on the sod or the beach, you should check it out, right? And and see what it's doing because it's it's those areas that are different that are usually going to be have the different currents and it's gonna push the bait fish through, it's gonna sweep the forage through that area. And that's it's always worth a look. It's always worth a look, at least for a moment. Toss the plug in there a few times and and see what you can get. And and they're usually pretty active if they're sitting there in my experience. Correct. Yeah, otherwise, they're not gonna be sitting in the current, they're gonna be sitting somewhere without the current, so they're you know, resting a little bit.

Chris Matuson 1:11:33

So last week when I was out wasn't an ideal tide, but to my right, wasn't getting anything in front of me, but to my right, I could see it was definitely within casting range, and I could see the way the waves were breaking, kind of rolling over a sandbar. And you know, there was a something, some kind of turbulence being created there. And I said, Man, that's look that that's a prime spot. First cast in that spot there. The there she was right there. It's just, you know, same thing again. We could talk about the freshwater fishing again and and freshwater trout fishing. You know, when you catch fish in those those heavy current, not even not even really heavy current, but just some type of current, yeah, they're a lot more active. There's a lot more oxygen flowing through that water. Yeah, you know, they're just a lot more energetic, and and that's still, you know, an ambush point, you know, right on the edge of a sandbar, whether it's on the inside edge of the bar or the outside edge of the bar, you know, the wave comes in, pushes baiting, gets washed up. You know, that's a prime opportunity for them to go up and feed. But uh, and the same thing with the surf. I don't a lot of you know, a lot of people, oh, this, you know, it's uh it's not high tide, I can't go. I I don't really get a whole lot of fish at high tide. Just a little hint.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 1:12:46

So again, I'm I'm traveling two, two, three hours. I'll get them at any tide, but I think I have to work a lot harder. You know, if I'm there and it's high tide, I'm fishing it. Yeah, but I have different spots that I go, you know, during those tides. Typically it's deeper water stuff, there's not as much top water going on. But it it's the slack tides that I think are are the most difficult for really any kind of ambush predator like striped bass. But but here's another another question. So I think you're you answered this kind of top three things you look for when picking a spot in the back. So I I think you already talked about it with the surf, looking for the the the changes in the water pattern and and the structure. What are the other two that you would add in there?

Chris Matuson 1:13:31

Uh current, wind, and and and depth of the area I'm fishing. I think those are the three most important things. And if you we want to say four, I'd I'd say the moon phase because moon acts absolutely plays such a huge factor into locations in the in the back, because the water can fluctuate, you know, sometimes three feet from you know just a nonsense moon phase to a super high one in the spring. But again, a lot of people shy away from that because now the areas that they're accustomed to fishing are now under, you know, water that's almost chest high. You know, I'm willing to go out of that and trek through it to get where I need to go. But, you know, because at some point on outgoing tide, that water is gonna push out. And if you have some wind to help it, it's gonna push out pretty fast. But I don't usually do good if there's no wind. Too much wind, I'd rather have that than not have enough wind because I can go to a spot where the wind at some point is gonna be, you know, blowing against my back or or not as bad of a crosswind where I could still get you know some kind of target angle to cast at. But yeah, those are the those are the couple things you need to look for, I think. And well, and bait, obviously. I mean, if we're talking late summer, early fall, and the mullet, you know, have started to do their thing in the back, you definitely want to target around where those mullet are at because bass are just going to key in on those, uh, especially when there's a baby bunker in the back. You know, you I don't really pay attention to those. The bluefish can kind of have those, but I want to I want to target on those mullets and and early spring, same thing. If there's adult bunker back there, some of those other factors may not matter as much because if they could get those, you know, get that bait pinned in, you know, you could have whatever kind of condition going on. But if they got the bait pinned in, that's uh you know, that's a key factor.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 1:15:31

So you know, it's interesting. You say that the peanut bunker is not, I don't even look at that anymore because there's just so much of it out there.

Chris Matuson 1:15:39

I can't find any bass on peanut bunker. And again, I you know maybe it's just the select areas I go, but yeah, I actually don't even like when I see them back there because it almost turns off the bite for me. When I don't see a lot of bait, I I've had some of my best days because if those resident bigger bass are, you know, they stay in these certain areas for a certain amount of weeks at a time. And if there's not a whole lot of bait coming through, and you throw that big plug coming through there, they just you know they're hammered at top speed because they're hungry, they got to eat.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 1:16:15

Yeah, absolutely. Let's see. Diesel, he wants to know what do you what do you feel about pencil poppers?

Topwater First And Always

Chris Matuson 1:16:28

Uh I I well, I mean, I I'd use them in the surf on on calmer days, but it's a bit a little tough down here this fall with the wind to throw a pencil, but I throw them in the back too. There's there's a lot of spots that I fish that are very, very shallow, but then there's a huge drop-off at some point out there, and you can see some activity out there, and for whatever reason the wind's not pushing them in or the bait just isn't moving, those fish will not move. So there's no doubt I'll throw a pencil, a two-ounce pencil back in the back off the sidebank and and work it. Yeah, it's a little tough when you're got a seven and a half foot rod. Right. Um, but you know, there's enough plug makers out there now that make smaller pencils. Uh, have some that are like an ounce and a half, they'll cast like a rocket, and you still get really, really good action out of them. It's a little tiring on the arm on it on a you know, uh a fast action rod. Because I use a a pretty stiff one because I can throw like up to four or five ounces with that rod. I use it out front, I use it in the back. It's it's just shy of eight feet, a jig and world nexus rod. So using pencils are a little tough at times, but yeah, I throw pencils in the back. You see bird activity, you see bait activity, and you can't reach it. Uh, a pencil may be the only thing to get it. So I always throw some kind of slim pencil in my bag. I always bring that.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 1:17:51

So, so okay, and you're probably and I think you're probably like me, you'll throw topwater at any time of the day.

Chris Matuson 1:17:59

Or do you use what do you I'll throw, I'll throw it at night.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 1:18:02

Yeah, I'll throw it at night.

Chris Matuson 1:18:03

I mean, if if I hear some action going on, I mean, if there's some lights around or if it's a a full moon and I can get some light on the water, obviously it's going to be better. But yeah, if I hear action going on, absolutely I'm gonna throw that because listen, they'll they'll come up and they'll they'll bite they'll bite metal lips like crazy at nighttime. So yeah, a popper or even a spook like works slower. Yeah, no, no, no doubt. It doesn't matter the time of day, nighttime, middle of the day. I I always throw top order first from the middle of April until November. And obviously, if I'm not getting anything, then I'll go subsurface. But you'll never catch a time where I go out where I don't have a top order plug on there to start with. Because I'm not going to pass up that that top order opportunity to get that strike and that just that that visual picture to give it up for a subsurface door. No, yeah, it's too addicting. You can't give that up. I mean, come on, that's what it's all about. Well, top order fish.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 1:19:07

Ed, you're you're throwing top water first, also, aren't you?

Ed Gobbo 1:19:11

Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. You can't do it the other way. That's day came on fishing a spook. Yep.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 1:19:18

Yep. I'd I'd look at it this way. And Bill was asking that question in the in the chat. There, I think it's a myth that they don't bite after a certain time on topwater. I think that it just means that you didn't move spots when the conditions changed, you know. Well, it got light out and the and the bite turned off. Well, it turned off their move. They're of course they're not going to be there now. It's a light out, they're going to move to this other spot. But I I think the topwaters are outstanding to start with. Yes, I'm also addicted to the the blow up and seeing it. You get the full experience, you get all the senses in there, right? Yep. But but I think it's also because the most aggressive fish are going to go after the most aggressive presentation, and that's topwater. It's making the most noise, it's throwing off water up top, it's it's it's it's the easiest for them to see, and that's the one that you want to get. So I think you should always start with the topwater. I do fish them at night. I fish, I will fish them in a new moon. It doesn't matter. I'm gonna try them, and I've caught at all times with it. And yes, it is the most intense. I mean, you don't see people you know posting just a quick video. Look at this underwater blow up. Oh, look at how the rod bent when I set the hook. No, they're showing the top water. That's what everyone's clicking on because that's what everybody wants to get.

Chris Matuson 1:20:40

And and there's got to be something to drive you to go back. I mean, if if every fish you missed was on a subsurface lure, I I don't know if the the reaction, the self-reaction would be the same. But I mean, when you're you know, you miss some really, really big fish on top, or if they don't even commit and you just see the wake, that's an that's enough to you know get me to I there's days, you know, I'll go four, five, six days in a row when the bite's that good. You know, the the the top order, even if it's really rough, like I said this past spring. I mean, we were, you know, the the the smaller usuri wasn't doing it when the wind picked up. So my buddy went out. He's like, hey, you know what? Here, we're now we're gonna throw these these five-inch ones. And, you know, they were they were withstanding, you know, almost white caps back there. And, you know, we'd, you know, 32, 35-inch bass just busting out of the water at them and you know, some crazy wind. But yeah, I I always throw it first. I never throw subsurface first. It doesn't, it doesn't matter. Even if I know the opportunity probably isn't gonna present itself on top, I still will always throw that that top order lower because I I've I've seen stranger things happen. But one thing I won't do is when like on a really, really hot day, I won't spend a lot of time throwing that top order. I'll throw it for a little bit. And if maybe 10 casts, I don't get anything to commit, then I'll go underneath the surface. Where if it's dawn or dusk, you know, I'll I'll go 40 minutes or an hour, just wait, you know, I'll I'll stick it out with that type of presentation. But when it's warmer out, yeah, I mean, I'll throw it a little bit, but then I'll go underneath the surface. I won't do it as long.

Ed Gobbo 1:22:19

So right, right. I think I think top water too is a good search bait. It's a good you get a visual representation of where you're casting along that bank. So you know, okay, I've tried this whole area top. I can go you know, subsurface or I can move areas or whatever. At least for me, that's that's a uh how I how I attack it sometimes.

Chris Matuson 1:22:39

It's kind of like using a crankbait for uh for freshwater, you know, for largemouth bass fish, and it's it's a great fish locator. You know, like you said, Rich, you know, they're aggressive fish. That's really what I target too. I don't I don't target fish that are that are really not ready to strike. I mean, yeah, I create the strike with the lure, but you know, it's it's an aggressive strike. So fish that are kind of just hanging out and just lazy or whatever. I'm probably not gonna catch those fish because I'm not fishing a method to really kind of attract them. But yeah, that top order presentation that's gonna bring the most aggressive fish. And I've had it where I'm not even like to my spot yet, but I could kind of see something happening and I'll just wing it from you know, maybe like another 50 or 70 feet away. And as soon as it hits the water, you just pop it once. And but you're not gonna you're not gonna get that with a different lure. You're just not gonna get the same reaction. If you if you're throwing, you know, a a quarter ounce or a or or a half ounce plastic tail, it it's not gonna be the same way. You you know, they may hit it instantly when it hits the water, but that's a totally different type of of strike. When you're talking, as soon as the the plug hits the it hits the water, and either you don't even have a chance to crank it or you just pop it once and you get that crazy explosion. To to me, there's just no comparison.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 1:24:02

Yeah, I'm definitely gonna agree with that. I mean, that's what it's all about for me. I mean, you you see one one big fish hit or come up, and well, that's the other thing, you get a good sense of the size of it too, and what you just missed. Right.

Inlets Strategy And Safety

Chris Matuson 1:24:17

If you don't right, and and when you're fishing in areas where you know there's some adjacent current or there's you know a rip going through, sometimes you really can't tell the size of a fish when they hit something subsurface down inside there. And when you realize sometimes now it's too late if your drag isn't right, right, or you're not, you know, yeah. I I've been burned way too many times on that. Yeah, but even you know, uh tarpon fishing is is the same way. I mean, I I started catching them a couple years ago on plastics, but then once I caught my first one on top water, I've haven't gone back to plastics since. And you know, that that that spook bite and seeing a 60, 70-inch fish just fly out of the water and and engulf it. You can't compare that to anything else in the world. You know, if I'm live lining on a live mode out there, it's not it's not the same. It's it's just not the same. You know, the the fight may be the same, but the initial strike, and again, that's what it's about for me is that initial presentation and take. Definitely a leg of its own.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 1:25:29

So yeah, I I have to agree. Let me ask you this. I want to I want to circle back because there are a couple of people want to talk a little bit more about the conservation side. But before we end, John Hutchinson, another member of this channel, actually was asking, do the inlets produce it all? What's your thought on the inlets versus surf versus back bays and how would you fish those?

Chris Matuson 1:25:52

I did I think it depends on the time of year. You know, inlets, again, you got a lot of current going through there, so that's a good thing. You know, you really have to know, you know, what you're doing and and and where you're standing at and how to fish. Again, because you have sandbars, you have rips, you have troughs, so it's not the easiest place to fish, but inlets when nothing else is producing, they could be, you know, they could be lights out. I mean, that's you know, really kind of the path that fish take when you think about it, to get to the rivers in the spring to spawn. When they leave the rivers to go back out front, they have to come through the inlet again. And when fish are migrating, you know, I I can't think of a better place for for fish to stop off and you know take a bite. You know, there's always current there, so inlets also draw a lot of bait. And we talked about you know the bait equals fish equation there. So yeah, I mean, inlets are a fantastic spot. It's that's a different way of of fishing. So, but again, some of the lures are the same. You know, you could you could throw you know sp minnows, you could throw, you know, mag darters, you could throw regular darters, you know. Again, if there's a lot of current, you got to get something that's gonna stay in that current because you want to be in that strike zone as long as possible. You don't want to, you know, have it immediately get swept because if the fish are sitting there, you know, in the current, regardless of the direction they're facing, if you're getting swept right away, you're not even getting that fish an opportunity. So, you know, mag darters for me are a great lord of fish and heavy, heavy current. But again, you know, that's something that you need to get out there and and and really look at for the time of year. I don't I don't do good in inlets in in in the summer, but you know, the the fall used to be a really good bite in the inlets down here. I don't think it is really so much, but you know, we can look at at Seekin Inlet this past this past spring.

Ed Gobbo 1:27:56

The spring was insane.

Chris Matuson 1:27:58

Yeah, so we want to talk about how. How inlets produce, you just got to look back at the videos posted from this past spring. I mean, you know, Ed and a lot of my other friends that fish Atlantic City. I mean, these guys were just it was just totally insanity over there. I mean, yeah, you know, it's again, you know, I I pass up a lot of nice fish because I don't I don't get involved with the crowds. I just it's just not comfortable for me. But you know, the the people that are willing to to get in the middle of that, you know, when you got some nights, you know, a a dozen or twenty, you know, 40 to 50 inch fish that are being caught. So that tells you right there the inlets do produce.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 1:28:41

But it's it's a different game though, right? I mean, it's totally different.

Chris Matuson 1:28:47

It's different gear, you know, it it's different setups. You really can't take a lot of your back bay equipment out there because again, you may have even a smaller window in an inlet to fish, because one minute you may have hardly no water between your knees and your ankles, and then 20 minutes later, now you're waist high, and now the water that you walked in to get to where you are is now overhead. So the only thing I would tell people when it comes to that is either go with somebody you know who knows what they're doing, or you know, find an inlet that has rocks because to just do it on the sand is a totally different way, and I don't think we're gonna have that conversation here, but but if you're gonna do it on the rocks, yeah, absolutely. Spring is fantastic for inlets.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 1:29:37

So yeah, I actually, you know, we we can we can circle this back around. Just wanted to go through a couple of the the comments about the conservation side. I was in app seeking inlet, but I was kayak fishing this spring, and guy pulled in a huge bass. I mean, he was going crazy, he and his buddy, and they pulled it in, and I'm like, that's too big, that's way too big. So they were right off the side, and I said, How big is it? They said, uh, we don't know, we don't have anything to measure it. So I said, Well, I got a bump board, so I went over to them real quick, thinking, God, let them get it back in the water, and I handed it to them, knowing that it's way over my bump board, which only goes to 36 inches. And I was like, How big is it? And they said, Well, it's it's bigger than the board. And so I lifted myself up. I stood in the kayak and I'm looking down, I was like, dude, that's a 50 incher. And they started cheering. I said, You got to throw that back, that's too big, you gotta let it go. And they started looking at each other. I was like, I know it's gonna happen. I said, just give me my board back. They handed it back, and like, I'm just telling you right now, you get caught with that, it's a big fine, everyone's gonna know your name. And man, they hammered it, just took off, kept the damn thing. But that was in up seeking inlet. Yep, but you got to keep in mind when fishing these inlets, the death, the the first of all, the currents are great, but they're also they can be too much, dangerous too.

Chris Matuson 1:31:00

Yep, absolutely.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 1:31:00

Yeah, they're they're definitely dangerous, they they can be too much for the fish. I mean, people you need to remember, think about where they would go to get the bait, where the bait's gonna get swept, but also remember that these fish can't go to the grocery store. So if they if they're gonna eat, they have to expend their calories to get their meals. So they're not gonna want to sit in a five-knot current. They're gonna find where the bait's coming through, they're gonna go back further into the back or out front to where that that five-knot current or four-knot current is down to two-knot current, which is still pretty good. I mean, still pretty strong. You're not swimming out of that, but and they're gonna wait there because it's much less effort for them to get those those bait fish that are being swept through. So always keep that in mind with the inlets. Keep in mind also Absequin Inlet gets to 50 feet deep, Herford Inlet gets down to 60 feet deep. Yep, so it's a whole different game. You're not throwing a top water as effectively in an inlet as you are right where the inlet dumps into the back bays or right around the jetties that that border those inlets. So you just gotta fish them differently.

Chris Matuson 1:32:03

But to the conservation, it's a whole different experience, a whole different experience. So just gotta be careful when you do it.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 1:32:08

So, yeah, and if you do decide you're not gonna go on shore and you go in a boat or a kayak, just be extremely careful. Bad things happen quick in in inlets. So let's just pull it around to just a couple more things before we go. I think we're we're approaching we're a little over an hour and a half, so we can always ask Chris to come back and talk more.

Chris Matuson 1:32:29

I could do this, I could do this every night of the week.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 1:32:31

So could I so could I do this every night of the week, man?

Chris Matuson 1:32:35

This is this is fantastic stuff.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 1:32:37

Yeah, my son would probably rebel. He just got back from soccer practice and is very quietly making his dinner, giving me LCI.

Chris Matuson 1:32:45

So it's funny because I I I came in my office here and I and I I I set up and and I have in front of me, I have a wall with I have a lot of pictures in here, but I have one wall of my my uh fishing in in Punta Cana. And she's like, Hey, you should kind of turn around and have that in the background. I said, Yeah, we'll be here four hours if I have those pictures in there.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 1:33:04

That's another that's another conversation, uh which which I'd like to have sometime when I see a six-foot carpet.

Chris Matuson 1:33:10

Well, we could talk about that when I get back from because I leave. Uh I'll be I'll already be down there this time next week. So when I get back from that, I'm sure we'll have a lot of material to talk about.

Ed Gobbo 1:33:21

Yeah.

Chris Matuson 1:33:22

Uh you listen, I guarantee you you'll have a you'll have a 50 or a 60 injured, and uh in less than I'll be there less than 24 hours. I'll have it already. So I'm dialed in for it. There's no there's no failure down there. Failure's not an option.

Keeping Fish Legally And Ethically

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 1:33:35

So all right, so let's pull this back. So John Davis, who's actually another member of the channel, so he's making the point, and and I and a couple of other people did, you know, they they love eating fish and they'll go out and they'll they'll catch the things that are gonna stay within the the legal limits. I I just want to be clear, my standpoint is you're fine if you're within the legal limits. There, there's not I'm not gonna complain about that ever on any of these things. And I know John, I fished with John a few times, and yeah, he he's he's keeping, I don't know that he keeps all of his fish, but you know, he is definitely doing it right, and I've seen him release a bunch of fish as well. And then the other point that was brought up, yeah. Let me just show it here, it might be easier. Three hours away, get less fish each year. But when he does, he wants to bring some fish home. What's your opinion? Uh I mean, I'll start my opinion, and then Ed, maybe maybe you want to jump in. My opinion is I don't care if you're three minutes away, you know, if you want to bring a fish home, I think you you're I think you're fine with it. Now, again, I will stress for me personally, and this is just me personally, and I don't judge anyone else, I'm not keeping a weak fish, I'm not keeping a straight bass, probably not gonna keep a sheep's head. I throw back most of the tog that I catch that are keeper size, but I don't look sideways at anyone that fishes with me that's gonna keep the legal limit, right? I may start to say something if they go every day and they're they're limiting out. I may say, hey man, give that a rest.

Chris Matuson 1:35:08

Right.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 1:35:08

You might want to think about it, but I'm still not gonna get mad at them. I don't think there's anything wrong with it as long as it's within the raw laws. And if we don't like the laws as fishermen, we can go out to these meetings and we can work to get them changed. Um, and not enough of us do that, but that's my own opinion. Ed, what's what's your thought on that?

Ed Gobbo 1:35:28

I have a very similar thought. I mean, it's it's your right, it's your legal right to go catch fish. If you want to keep fish, I mean, as long as you're body abiding by the rules, I see no problem with it. You know, people that are way smarter, at least on paper, way smarter than us, you know, are modern in this stuff and they're saying, okay, you can keep this, this, and this, well then, you know, go for it.

Chris Matuson 1:35:50

Yeah, and I mean, obviously, I mean, you know, the the the limits are what they are, and and you know, you guys are right. You know, when somebody's entitled to keep it, then you know that's that's okay for them, you know. And and but like you say, Rich, like my personal preferences, I I like seeing them released. I release all mine, you know, except for one or two fish, the the last 20 years. And and I don't, you know, I don't fault people for that for keeping, but at the same time, I hear some of the same people complaining when the fishery is decimated, and you know, oh well, I I can't understand the way that is. You know, why is that?

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 1:36:32

I wonder.

Chris Matuson 1:36:33

You know, and and again, a lot of that is you know, a lot of it is the back bay down here, a lot of it's from poaching, it's not from people keeping, you know, one bass here or there. And and I get the whole point that, you know, the the the guy that with the question about the whole three hours, I I you know, I can understand that completely. You know, my point of view is that, you know, I'm 10 minutes from here, you know, this is my home, these are my home waters, this is where you know we we live and breathe this year. And you know, when I go out year after year and I go to the same spots and you know, I'm seeing less fish, less fish, less fish, smaller size, smaller size, smaller size. You know, where does that where do we stop with that? So you know, but like you said, hey, listen, I I I I respect everybody's opinion and everybody doesn't agree with me. A lot of people do, a lot of people don't. I think it's you know, split probably 60, 40 out there with people that are okay with keeping their fish, and then another 40%, maybe it's 30%, that you know, think that, hey, you know, especially striped bass, just kind of release them all, at least for the time being. Like I support a moratorium. I I think that uh I would be okay with that, but again, I'm okay with that because I release them. I'm sure there's a lot of people that say, hey, you know what? Who are you to tell me that I, you know, you'll make me register for the saltwater license. In some states, you got to pay for that license. And then you tell me I can't keep what I catch. So I I I totally get that point. I totally understand that. But just for me personally, you know, I just I just like seeing them released and see them go the other way. You know, I've caught the same fish twice over the summer, stripers up on the flats, and you know, so that you know, people that well, you know, they they migrate all the way through. No, there's a lot of fish that that's their home orders, and you know, there's a few spots that I used to go to before that I can't even get a bite now. They used to be like lights out spots. It's not, oh well, you know, that the bay changes and they just move elsewhere. And no, I I don't I don't believe that for a second. Because those other areas, I'm still getting the same, but I uh these other areas I know that it's been a high profile uh poaching spot over the years, and guys go back with vans at nighttime and they use shrimp or whatever, they get a bunch of shorts, 16, 20 inch fish, load them up, load them up, load them up. You know what? You do that for a couple years. Well, you know, now you got a big radius area that you know there are no no resident fish left in there, so yeah.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 1:39:00

And I think a big thing is you know, it often devolves into a commercial versus rec guy. I I don't think it's legit commercial versus legit rec. I think it's poacher, commercial poacher versus recreational poacher. And when I say commercial poacher, I don't know that they're selling illegal fish. I I just think that they yeah, I think that maybe they're not quite following the bycatch rules, but you know, when it comes down to it, would I support a moratorium? I probably would, you know, it but but man, but to your point, it's tough to tell people you can't, right? You can't keep it.

Chris Matuson 1:39:38

Yeah, and and and that's another reason why I kind of fish alone, because you know, I'm I'm never gonna say to somebody, hey, you know, maybe jokingly, if I'm out with a buddy and he wants to keep it, like, oh, you know, you really got to put that back. But a lot of guys that go with they're not gonna try and keep them anyway. But you know, I I just you know, I don't want to see it, so I just elect to go somewhere else. I'm not gonna say, hey, well, you know, if you want to keep fish, you know, you shouldn't be fishing here where no, it's it's it's not my right, you know. The the the law is what it is and limits are what they are, and if I don't want to see it, then that's a problem for me, and I'll just go somewhere else, which which I'm okay with. And you know, I catch plenty of fish elsewhere, but you know, but you know, the back to what Ed said, and not to kind of drag out the point, but you know, you kind of you know, if you see a certain thing growing up and you're kind of accustomed to a certain way of life, yeah, I think that rolls over into the whole keeping fish and and spot burning is the you know the same thing. But I think if we didn't have as much spot burning in the back bay, I don't think the catch rates would be kind of what they are either, because I think that the the spot burn thing has kind of exposed a lot of the not the techniques, but the yeah, you can't go everywhere and catch them.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 1:41:00

Right, right, right. There's more to it than just the spots.

Chris Matuson 1:41:03

You know, but when we're but when we're talking about exactly, you know, hey, we're here right now and this is what we're doing, and this is you know, I it's just I I just have a as a local, I have a problem with that. If if I was a visitor, I would be all for that. I'd be like, hey, that's great, give me all the news. I I'm not gonna come down here and waste my time, tell me exactly where to go. But again, when you're a local guy and you're out there just for the sport of it, and you're kind of out there, you know, for peace of mind and and to do your thing, and and it's kind of like a you know, a shit show.

Ed Gobbo 1:41:37

Yeah, it's uh that's got a lot to do with our society too. Everybody's instant gratification and wants to know everything right away. Nobody wants to put the work in anymore. Nobody wants to figure out where these fish are, nobody wants to, they just want to go drop a line, catch a fish.

Enforcement And Final Takeaways

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 1:41:53

Yeah, which I get for some people, but there are others that really are just too lazy to figure it out themselves or or listen to what you're telling. Like, I literally on this channel will tell you how to find flounder, but you you should you should do your own work and figure it out, right? You can find your own flounder, but the spot burning is dangerous for conservation, but it's also dangerous for losing access to spots when you're talking about land-based fishing. Like to me, yeah, that that is an extremely legitimate point. It gets a little less legitimate when you're on a kayak or a boat, you know it's just not as important. But man, when you're talking about access to spots and people destroying them, I think it's a big deal. But I think you know, just to from my own point, just to to draw to a close on the conservation side, I think really the the the best thing that could happen is not necessarily a moratorium, but getting the conservation officers for striped bass, get them out on the on the the beaches, you know, instead of having one in a 50-mile radius for Cape May County and Atlanta County, which is what the guy told me a few a couple years ago, there was one of them. It was only him. So he gave me his card and his cell, his personal cell. He said, You can call me anytime, but it may take me a couple hours to get out there because it's just me. But if you had enough of them and they were and they were actually out on the beaches, they were out on the docks, they're out on the piers, if they were out on a boat patrolling the three-mile line, which I think is the biggest violation of the three-mile line of wreck fishermen, I think that's where you're gonna make the difference. People can hate me for that or not, it's never gonna happen anyway, because they were talking millions of dollars. Uh that nobody wants to listen.

Ed Gobbo 1:43:39

Taxes are high enough here in Jersey. We can afford to hire some more conservation officers, all right.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 1:43:44

I was telling Chris, that's why I I can't live in that's one of the big the two big reasons that I can't live in New Jersey is the taxes. I can't, I can't, can't do it.

Chris Matuson 1:43:54

Well, we were supposed to lose that gas tax, what, a couple months ago, and now gas down here is higher than we've seen it in. I don't know. It's it's it's yeah.

Ed Gobbo 1:44:03

Oh, that's a whole different direction in this channel's heads. Yeah, yeah.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 1:44:07

Well, that's like the Philadelphia wage tax was a temporary tax put in place, I think, in 1920, and it's still there. Once it's taxed, it's never going away.

Ed Gobbo 1:44:15

Exactly. They don't they don't put takeaway taxes.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 1:44:18

No, no, it's free money to politicians. So um, all right, with that, guys, thank you, Chris. Thank you so much for coming on. I'd love to have you back on. Love to get out there and fish with you and learn some things from you. You're definitely um much more skilled and knowledgeable about the SOD game uh than I am, although I do have a ton of SOD bank experience. Um I definitely learned a lot from this. So thank you. Uh absolutely.

Chris Matuson 1:44:44

I definitely look forward to fishing in the future. And and you know, for for people that, you know, it's just you you have to put in the the commitment. You have to put in the time. You know, Ed touched on the self-graph, you know, the instant graphication thing. And you know, it's just uh a lot of time and effort, and it, you know, it pays off. I mean, it's a it's a fun thing for me to do. It's a great thing that I've you know come to do uh you know all year round, well, except for three months or two months, we're not supposed to.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 1:45:10

Right, when we're not allowed.

Chris Matuson 1:45:11

Striper fish when we're not allowed, right? Um, but no, absolutely. It's uh, you know, and I encourage, you know, people to get out there and just you know give it a shot and and just figure out your own bike because it's it's much more rewarding when you do that. But you know, if we talked about a couple tips tonight and gave out a little info to help people who haven't maybe been catching a lot to catch a few and kind of get hooked on it, you know, that's that's fantastic. So good stuff.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 1:45:35

Great.

Ed Gobbo 1:45:35

Yeah, man. Thanks for coming on.

Chris Matuson 1:45:37

You got it. Anytime, guys.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 1:45:38

Yeah, thanks, guys. Thanks for checking out the video or the live stream and asking questions. And uh we'll catch you in a couple weeks. We'll be announcing that next topic shortly. Uh, we're still not quite sure which way we're gonna go, but we'll we'll let everyone know as soon as as soon as we get it all nailed down. And and Chris, good luck in uh in DR.

Chris Matuson 1:45:56

That's gonna be your next show when I come back. We're gonna talk about that.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 1:45:59

I'll do it. I'm sure, I'm sure some people it I mean it's start it's first started to feel like fall and winter this week. I'm sure people are gonna want to see some nice warm weather tarpon fishing. Uh results.

Chris Matuson 1:46:12

86 degrees down there right now. It's game one next Monday.

Ed Gobbo 1:46:16

I'm sitting in here in my garage with a space heater at my feet, freezing my butt off.

Rich - Fat Dad Fishing 1:46:22

All right, guys. Thanks a lot. Thanks everyone for watching. All right. We'll catch you on the next one.