EP 55: From Kayaks To Head Boats, Your Questions Answered

Cold water shrinks the feeding window, but it doesn’t close the door. We break down how to keep catching when the temps drop—reading birds and bait from the sand, shifting targets when the tog bite dies, and picking kayak hulls that actually match your water and body. George shares a cautionary tale about leaving a premium surf setup on the beach and the routine that got it back, then walks us through a pragmatic surf plan: work a defined stretch, watch party boats and birds, move with the bait, and downsize pencils when sand eels rule the wash.

Paul dives into kayak fit and safety for winter: why demo days matter more than brand names, the tradeoffs between primary and secondary stability, and the rise of micro skiffs and motorization in wind and current. We get practical on budgets too. Mid-price surf rods like Tsunami Airwave Elite punch up, grease-packed reels still earn their keep, and a single 7’6” medium-heavy with 15 lb braid can handle fluke, tog, blues, and even a surprise cow if you manage the drag. Kristen shares party boat wisdom—start with sea bass and porgies for quick wins, ask mates for help, and handle seasickness the smart way by dosing the night before and morning of.

We also tackle the winter head game. Burnout is real when every trip feels like a deadline. The fix is intention: pick weather windows, fish with people who keep it calm, and switch species to keep the spark alive—white perch on ultralight might be the reset you need. Finally, we compare notes on when tog push deeper, how temperature bands shape their moves, and why bass can still explode in short, aggressive bursts even in frigid backwaters. Layer up, keep it simple, and have a Plan B rod ready. That’s how you turn a cold morning into a hot bite.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome & Panel Lineup
• 1:11 Sponsor Shoutouts & New Gear
• 6:49 Surf Setup Lost And Found
• 12:01 Getting Started With Kayak Fishing
• 19:20 Plan B Targets When Tog Won’t Bite
• 27:07 Budget Rods, Reels, And Proven Combos
• 36:48 First-Time Party Boat Advice
• 45:12 Reading Beaches For Winter Stripers
• 53:02 Finding Safe Kayak Launches
• 1:00:06 Burnout, Balance, And Picking Days
• 1:09:18 When Do Tog Move Deep?

Transcript

George Bucci: 0:00

The activity of these fish is just a shorter period of time, but they're just as active in that short period of time. They're very aggressive in 30 degree water as they are in 43 degree water, but it's just a smaller window.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 0:16

Hello and welcome back to the Fat Dad Fishing Show. I'm your regular host, Rich Natoli. And tonight's going to be one of those episodes where we do the QA. We get a lot of questions that come in during episodes, after episodes. I get a lot of texts, emails, comments. Uh, and we want to try to pull together some of these answers, but I can't do it myself. So reached out to an all-star crew of people to come on. So we're going to have on tonight George Gucci. We're going to have Paul, Mr. Great Bay Outfitters on, and Philly Girl Fishing Kristen on. And uh I think we've got it pretty well covered there. We've got the surf, we've got the boats, we've got the head boats and the charters, and we've got the kayaks covered and uh pretty much every species. And I'm sure Paul's gonna hope that somebody asks questions about Sheep's head. I won't, but he might. You know he wants it. So uh we're gonna roll into that pretty quick. I'm gonna go through the sponsors real quick, and we're gonna start off with Paul and Great Bay Outfitters. If you're not aware, they are the original, the primary sponsor of this podcast and live stream. Uh so thank you, Paul, for that. Uh Raider Road in Tuckerton, my home shop for kayak fishing and outfitting my kayak. And when I get down that way, whether I need something or not, I tend to buy it. I can't tell you how many extra uh rod holders I have that I really don't need because I don't carry as many rod holders as I have. But if for some reason they break off, I've got extras. But uh Paul is carrying native, he's carrying old town, he's got the crust. We've got to ask him about that when it comes on. He's got the new line now in the shop, which is pretty exciting, uh, especially for those that like the really tricked out kayaks. Uh, so yeah, Radio Road Tuckerton, New Jersey, if you need anything kayak related, including if you want to buy a used kayak. People sell them through Paul. So he he's selling used kayaks all the time. You can you can pick up various brands that are not necessarily the brands that he carries, brand new. Then we have Quad Stay Tune with Kevin Driscoll is your guy. If you have a Toyota truck, Tacoma, Tundra, 4Runner, some versions of the Lexus. You need a tune for your engine, you get more torque horsepower and better shifting on the highways. So you're gonna get uh, you know, not only you're gonna be able to tow that boat a lot easier, but you're gonna get more performance out of those engines, which admit it or not, you know, you gotta admit it, Toyotas have great engines in them. I know people say, no, it's American. Well, look at Toyota, because Toyotas are great trucks. And then real estate for me, Southeastern Pennsylvania. You can reach out to me at 267-270-1145. Don't do it during the show. I won't answer. It's on silent. I remembered this time. But yeah, residential real estate in southeastern Pennsylvania, I can help you out. And all that said, I'm going to start bringing people on, and we're going to roll into this pretty quickly. So if you have questions, any question, you can ask any question you want. Doesn't mean we're going to answer it. And I'm saying that to my brother mainly because it's probably going to be some inappropriate stuff being thrown in that chat. But and I see my nephew in there as well. So we'll we'll see about that. But everyone, thanks for joining in the chat. And I'm going to bring on first George Bucci. George, good to see you. Going on, Richard. I'm excited for the I love these. I love these episodes. So let's let's hit your expertise. Century fishing dude here, but surf and boat, striped bass king of this this episode.

George Bucci: 3:47

I mean, that's what I do. I like I like to chase, I chase the bass.

unknown: 3:51

Yeah.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 3:52

And then we have your opposite coming on right now. We have Paul at Great Bay Outfitters who calls the striped bass the striped carp. Anything kayak related, sheep's head, tog, you're gonna have well, Paul. You're you're gonna fish for anything really, but you're really you really love the sheep's head.

Paul - Great Bay Outfitters: 4:09

Oh, I do. Love sheep's head. Sheepsead and Tog is probably 80% of what I do.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 4:13

Yeah, okay. And kayak, yeah, anything kayak fishing. And then we have we have Kristen from Philly Girl Fishing on. Kristen, it's been a while since you've been on this.

Kristen McKee - Philly Girl Fishing: 4:23

A long time.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 4:24

Yeah, it's great to see you. Kristen is one of the better people that I have fished with on the charter boats. And her claim to fame as has been brought up when she's not on by several people, is that she will somehow steal your spot on the boat and you won't even notice it because she's so damn polite about it.

Kristen McKee - Philly Girl Fishing: 4:44

You know, just come over, I think, you know, just make it make a joyful noise, you know, just have a good time.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 4:50

Yeah, you just come over, you say hi, how's it going? And you you don't even notice the rod in her hand, and next thing you know, she's fishing your spot and you're you're on the other side. So yeah, it'll happen. And then she'll pull up a fish when you were skonked for the last 25 minutes. So yeah, so everyone, thanks for coming on. I I'm looking forward to this. I think it's gonna be fun. And before we get started, Paul, you want to just real quick mention the new line of boats that you have in?

Paul - Great Bay Outfitters: 5:16

Sure. So pretty exciting. Cresscraft, Cresscraft kayaks, uh great boats. They've been traditionally paddle boats. There were no dealers in New Jersey, believe it or not. So I jumped on the opportunity. The really cool thing about Cresscraft, uh uh Creston kayaks is they have a new line. It's a micro skiff. So you can hang uh uh a six horsepower gas outward that will, man, she's gonna zoom. They're clocking like 18 to 20 miles an hour with six horsepower to Hot Two. And there's another variation of that microskiff that accepts electric motors like a Newport and K300. I've kind of transitioned from, you know, I lived in Ryan Bay for a long, long time, kind of enjoying the backwaters now. I think that microskiff is gonna do really, really well around here. It's got a six-inch draft, and it's got a actually a pretty sharp entry. So it's it's it's a legit boat. It's it's not like you know, some crap out of China. You know, Crestcraft Crescent is a US-based company and they're all manufactured here. So I'm extremely excited about it. It's just this new evolution of of kayaks. You know, motorization is a real trend in kayaking, and and I'm embracing it. It's pretty cool.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 6:31

Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing that out on the water. I'm definitely getting to the point in my life where I love kayak fishing, but it'd be nice to have a micro skiff, you know, something like that, because I just don't have it in me to put in 20 miles on the on the water every day like I used to. Yeah, so all right, let's jump in. We have we have a bunch of questions actually in the chat already, but there's one that is in the chat and also one that I got through text today, actually, from somebody who was on social media and noticed something. And George, you're gonna have to put a story behind this because this is specifically for you, the surf guy. And there's a reason this question was asked. But the question is what's the most important thing to remember when you're packing up from a day surf fishing?

George Bucci: 7:17

Don't put all your stuff in your truck.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 7:19

Yeah.

George Bucci: 7:21

All right, now give the background. Well, I it's been it's been a grind. This fall's been a grind. And I've been I was off a lot more days this November than I actually worked. I think I worked eight days this I took vacation time, so I wanted to grind. And I was coming to the end of the grind here. It was Black Friday. I had something to do with my wife, but I I had time in the morning to fish. So of course I drove an hour and a half north and fished the beach, and there was some fish, and I got caught up with time, realized what time it was. I was late, I was going to be late, my wife was gonna be angry. I ran to my truck and I did something that I don't ever do. I laid my rod against my truck on the passenger side, which I never do. And then I went around to the driver's side and took my belt off, took my dry top off, took my waiters off, threw them in my truck, my rod was out of sight, out of mind, and I jumped in the truck and drove away.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 8:20

Yeah.

George Bucci: 8:21

And you want to give a little background as to what exactly that setup is for the that was a Century S1 10-foot with a VSX2, probably about sixteen, seventeen hundred dollars. Yeah. So I was about 30 minutes down the road, realized like a brick hit me in the head. Oh my god, I forgot my rod. I called a buddy who was still on the beach. He ran up to my parking spot. There was about 30 guys there. I would say 20 of them would not have returned that rod. And he said it was gone. So I pretty much blasted it on the internet and hoped for the best. And then today, and when I had written it all off, I got a message from a woman who said, I think my husband has your rod. And she gave me the number and I called him, and he said, Boy, you are one lucky guy. He goes, I I should have some good mojo now. So I said, You're gonna get all the good carving coming, and and and then some. Um you know, so I I'll pick it up on Thursday. You know, yeah, it was it was it's been a painful three days, man. Not I was just disappointed in myself, you know.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 9:28

Right. Well, good good job not blaming your wife. Yeah, um, no, nobody to blame but myself. Um, but the moral of the story, the best thing to do is to do the same thing every time, right?

George Bucci: 9:41

Yeah, and I mean I've even gotten into the habit of even after I think I have everything packed, I walk around the truck because I can't tell you how many times I've laid things up on the side of my truck on the bed, like my phone, you know, maybe a couple other things, and just laid them there and then threw all my stuff in the truck and then jumped in. I mean, I actually I left my phone one time and drove miles down the road, and I went back and it was in the middle of an intersection, and I don't know how it didn't get run over, but it didn't.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 10:07

Yeah, I I've done it, I've personally done it with uh with GoPros and and other cameras similar to GoPros. I'll call them GoPros, but they weren't. But yeah, I did it down at OBX, and if you know down there, you can drive for three hours and still be on the island. And I'm about 45 minutes, I was like, oh my god, I left them in the bed and I went back and the bed's empty.

Kristen McKee - Philly Girl Fishing: 10:28

Yeah.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 10:28

So luckily it's just one straight road. So I just kept going back looking for these little tiny cameras, and the I it was one camera. I found it on the side of the road. I was lucky. It had a broken lens, but the lenses are only like five bucks. So yeah, thank God. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So there, there's the first one. Yeah, I do think one of the most important, and I'm gonna extend this. So, you know, your your point is do the same thing every time. Make it a process so that you know you you automatically go through it. You've you've went off of that because you were late.

George Bucci: 11:00

Yeah.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 11:01

And I also think, you know, just to extend it, that's what I learned kayak fishing and driving up to two or three hours away. I can't tell you how well you guys have seen it online, especially if you're in any kayak groups. Oh, I drove two hours and I left my drive at home. The one thing that I did is I drove I drove down to uh Cape May County and I left my PFD behind. And most people would just go fishing without it. I will not, so I had to end up buying a brand new PFD before I went out. So I had to wait for a shop to open that had one that that fit. So yeah. So preparation and and routine, I think, are are are big ones. Definitely. All right. So this this next one, Paul, this is actually in the chat. I'm gonna put it up there and and guys, I we're gonna start with Paul. Anybody that wants to jump in can jump in. Let me find this here. Wow, we're getting a lot of questions in here. All right. Justin from Downingtown here, um, a neighbor of mine. What's the best way to get started with kayaking for someone who has never done it? That's a great question.

Paul - Great Bay Outfitters: 12:10

That's a silly question. You come into great big outfitters. What are you talking about? No, this is uh the best way. Uh honestly, uh you don't want to start with a big box store. You need to go into a dealer who is independent who has experience in in kayak fishing. Uh, because these these boats are getting more and more expensive. And the last thing you want to do is spend several thousand dollars on a boat that doesn't fit your needs or doesn't fit your your fishing or the waters that you fish. Perfect example, I had a customer come in here uh over the weekend thinking he was gonna walk out with a PDL 120, and he ended up walking out with a big water because of where he intended to fish. So demoing a boat is very important. We're all built differently. Uh these these kayaks are like tools, you know, and and they're meant for a specific job. So if you're fishing out front, if you're fishing open water, you know, maybe a trial triangle design is is better for you. If you're primarily uh a lake, pond, you know, river fisherman, maybe a tunnel boat is better for you. You know, length has uh a lot to do with it. So I think it's really important to first, you know, determine your budget, what can you afford, you know. Like, don't do this, fake it till you make it stuff. Like if you can afford $2,000, you can afford $2,000. Demo boat. Um there aren't very many dealers that that have waterfront properties. You know, I'm very fortunate to have one that we have docks in the back. So I can put two, three, four boats, and then you can try them yourself. But I think those are the most important things is is establish a reasonable budget, figure out where you're gonna be, where you intend to fish the boat or use the boat and try it out. You know, uh I'm 6'1, 190 pounds. That boat's gonna behave differently for somebody who's you know 270 pounds. It's it's important to try them out.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 14:08

Yeah, I I actually almost bought a Hobie without trying it. I figured I'll just get a PA. And I I was fortunate that I ran across some. This was before Great Bay Outfitters existed. And I'm on the I'm out near the water, and a guy says, Hey, I said, I'm thinking about buying. He says, Hey, jump on it and try it. I hated it, it immediately hurt my knees. And it's not that there's anything wrong with it, it's just it didn't work with my knees. That that flutter kick, that push instead of the cycle motion. So that would have been about a four thousand dollar mistake right there.

Paul - Great Bay Outfitters: 14:41

Uh yeah, that's what I'm talking about. And we're we're all built differently, and it's it's really important before you spend a ton of money, sit in one, you know, try it out. It and you think it may be for you and just may not be.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 14:54

Right. And and really determine what you're going to use it for primarily. You know, everybody says, you know, I'll give you an example. If you look at Old Town, people say, well, the 120 is the most popular. I'm going to get the 120. 120 is great. And they're like, oh, I can stand a fish. Okay. If you're fishing an inlet, if you're fishing saltwater, you're probably not standing. You've got too many currents. And you you should really learn a little bit about stability of these kayaks because people always say you can't tip it. There isn't a true kayak that's been made that I can't tip in about three seconds. And there are the there are different types of stability. There's primary stability, that's you're not moving, you can stand. And then there's secondary. And secondary is you're moving and it's more stable if it has better secondary. And you look at the big water versus the 120. The 120 is outstanding primary, not as great secondary, and it's it's the opposite for the big water, which is why I have a big water, because I fish heavy currents and I do run inlets, and I want to have something that's going to be more stable when that heavy flow of water is coming through, especially you know, even around bridges and everything. Mine gets more stable, whereas some get less stable when that water's flowing over that hull. All right. That's that's a uh good answer, Paul. I do agree. Get out there on the water and try it, because otherwise you really could make a very big mistake. And it's not like back in the day where you can buy it for you know two grand and sell it for $2,200 a week later.

Paul - Great Bay Outfitters: 16:22

No, those things are over. You know, COVID is over. And these boats are getting more and more expensive. I'm outfitting an XDR right now that's running about $15,000.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 16:32

Yeah. How much?

Paul - Great Bay Outfitters: 16:34

$15,000.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 16:36

Good lord. Okay. I'm not getting that. I'm not even exaggerating. Oh my god. I I am not getting that at all. At all. All right. So let me let me so, Kristen, here's one. We'll start with you on this. I think I think the other guys might have something to say on this as well, but I want to start with you on this one. And this came up on a phone call that I had earlier today with somebody. I'm not going to mention names, but actually might be in the chat right now. The question is if the dog aren't biting right now at this time of the year, what else can you fish for when you're out front? So you're not in the backwaters, but you're out front. What would you do if you knew you're on a top and you're just not going to catch anything? Is there and you had all the gear in the world? Is there anything you can do?

Kristen McKee - Philly Girl Fishing: 17:23

It kind of depends on the boat. And I say that because every every boat has their different kinds of wrecks that they tend to frequent. So, you know, certain boats will do, there'll be porgies around. So I'm thinking of, I would say Jamaica 2 is my regular boat, even though I'm on 50,000 boats and up and down the East Coast and stuff. Like, if that would be my regular charter boat, that would be it, right? So most of the time we're going to go to a spot that has some porgies. So, you know, the folks that don't like talking, they can still catch porgies on the crab, or you know, we'll have other beta or whatever, some clam or whatever. I like slow pitch jigs. So for me, I almost always have at least two little slow pitch jigs in my bag and throw it down and see what I can catch. So depending on the time of year, again, later on in the year on J2, I'm thinking of a lot of times it's cog and tog. So again, I have a slow pitch jig just in case I'm that bored. Let me just dangle the jig. And I have caught not keepers though, but I have caught some some like 14-inch tug on a slow pitch jig, believe it or not. So it really can happen. Yeah, that was crazy.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 18:26

Sounds like a challenge for this for this weekend for our upcoming trip. All right.

Kristen McKee - Philly Girl Fishing: 18:30

I mean, hey, I mean, I'll be there, so let's let's try it.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 18:34

Yeah, all right. So you're you're saying Porgies. George, when you're when you're out front at this time of year and you're not going after the striped bass, you're going for Tog, what what would you be looking at as a secondary target? Well, maybe it could be striped bass.

George Bucci: 18:47

It is going to be striped bass. Yeah. I mean, if I'm on a charter, and if as long as we're inside of three miles, I still, if I'm on a charter, I'm bringing, I'm bringing a rod for Caston just in case, or Jagan, just in case, because uh it's happened, you know, many times off Atlantic City, especially this time of year. Atlantic City, even Cape May. Uh, buddy and I, we went out to go togging out of Cape May, and I brought a striper rod. We got out there and there was herring on the surface right off the Cape May reef. Yeah. And I he said, All right, drop the anchor. And I said, I'm not dropping the anchor until I put a bass in this boat. And so he ran me over there, and they were all like they were all 30, 40-pound bass. And we played with them for about an hour, and then the boats covered it up and put them down, and then we went back to Tog and I dropped the anchors for him.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 19:31

There you go. There you go. All right, Paul, what what are you fishing for as your secondary?

Paul - Great Bay Outfitters: 19:36

Kind of the same thing. Tog, sea bass, striped bass. Just, you know, you gotta be careful. You know, George mentioned a three-mile line. I almost made an error two years ago when I moved down here, stuck fishing. You know, I'm I'm in southern ocean county now. I ran into just acres of striped bass, and I happened to get a slot, and I'm like, all right, well, cool. And I put it in my boat, and like two minutes later, I'm like, holy crap, I'm going out to a piece that's six miles out. I can't drink this bass with me. So it didn't click. So just be conscious of that, you know. Like you may catch it inside of the three-mile line, but if you bring that fish past the three-mile line, you're gonna have a lot of explaining to do.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 20:21

You're done. Yeah, yeah. We uh we had one of the I I'm gonna say striped bass is a big one. The conversation today, it was sea bass was the one that he's gonna bring extra gear for this this trip on Sunday, thinking, you know, if the tog aren't biting, that's what he's gonna go after. Striped bass is a good one. I I have a feeling we're gonna start inside the three mile. I I wouldn't keep a striped bass personally, but it's something to go after. But I'll tell you on Fishmonger a couple years ago, one of the best trips I ever had, it was a tog trip, and the striped bass would not stop. I mean, it was insanity. I mean, we're fishing for tog, and then striped bass come by like a you know, a quarter of a mile away. So it's just anchors up and over there, and just on them, you know, it was it was like the perfect atmosphere. You're we're bailing those, we get exhausted, and then we go back to tog fishing until the next school came through. So, all right. Sounds like those are gonna be the big ones.

Kristen McKee - Philly Girl Fishing: 21:20

I did have one little story there for them. I was on uh fishbound down in Otisity, Maryland, and I don't know how far we're out, but we were far, really, really far. So we were looking for you know big tug. And this one guy he he was fishing his slow pitch setup, like he likes to use a slow pitch ride for catching tog or whatever. We thought he had a double digit, pull that thing up, it's like a 35-pound striped bass. And then the guy on the other side of the boat, his ride starts, you know what I mean, like going in, you know, cranking. So he brings it up. So we had these two twin 35-pound, 40-pound striped bass that we had to take pictures and throw them out. And even the captain was just like, Don't post that because people are gonna think that we kept it, which of course they went back.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 22:02

Exactly.

Kristen McKee - Philly Girl Fishing: 22:02

Oh man, well, that was so crazy because it was huge, huge striped bass on crab, on white crab. Like we weren't doing anything else, you know, fancy, just fishing for talk.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 22:12

Way out there, and fish bound, I believe, is the world record holding boat for talk, right?

Kristen McKee - Philly Girl Fishing: 22:17

Yeah, mom. Now we have I don't know if there's that isn't that what isn't that what Wester films? I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Just because I know there was a guy who just caught one in Rhode Island. Oh he caught it bigger. Yeah, it's up there. So I'm not sure which one is the biggest. I mean, but the big fish have recently been caught, so yeah.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 22:38

All right, well, it'll be on the osprey this weekend.

Kristen McKee - Philly Girl Fishing: 22:41

Hey, come on, speaking of things.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 22:45

It will be, it'll be on my rod. Of course, somebody will be borrowing it at the time, but it it'll be on my rod.

unknown: 22:53

All right.

Kristen McKee - Philly Girl Fishing: 22:54

What are you fishing for with the fertile? What's your rod setup you use?

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 22:57

So I actually this goes this kind of goes into a question. So I I use a custom that was made by John Creeley. So I believe it's a I believe it's a jigging world blank. And I just I love pen reels, so I use a pen squall low profile. And that's it. Like I I don't and actually this rolls into a the next question, which is for everyone. And and actually, Kristen, let's start with you, and then we can go around. The question that came in was it was set up with I can't afford these thousand dollar setups. What are some good setups that I can buy off the rack at a regular store within a limited budget to get on these fish? So I'm gonna leave it wide open and everyone can just answer for the kind of fish that you really like to target. And Paul, even though it's winter time, you can talk about sheep setup if you want. All right, Kristen, you're up.

Kristen McKee - Philly Girl Fishing: 23:55

All right, so I'm gonna go with fluke. I think that's the most, you know, we don't need to spend, you know, $2,500 on a fluke setup. It's so, it's so overkill now. Me, it depends. And and this kind of goes back to what Paul was saying earlier. Just know your budget, stop within your budget, and then stop within your means, realistically, right? So for me, I do have some injuries from car accidents and different things in sports when I was playing basketball and volleyball and all that stuff back in the day. I was a little more activist at my computer desk at work, right? So I like the lightest stuff possible. So sometimes I will go and spend a little more money to get that light and strong stuff. But my almost eight-pound fluke that I caught on J2, I caught that on a Nexus, on a freshwater, technically, Dio Tatula from 2013. Like I it's not even it's not even a salt water. Caught an eight-pound fluke on that. Like, you know, and it's not again a Nexus back then. I think it's probably like 180. I don't know what they are now, but you can definitely find them used. I honestly think you can you can get away with a solid fluke setup for like if you spend, let's say, 150 on the rod, and you could probably even go cheaper than that, but somewhere between 100 and 150 on a rod, and then 100 for like a size 100, fake caster reels is what I prefer to use just because I like to be able to kind of click where's my where's my camera? Here we go. Click the the bale and release it really easy without having that that open and making sure the line stays straight on those open reels. You know, that that's all you need. That's really all you need. And honestly, even from a jig perspective, you know, bucktails now are getting pretty expensive. So, you know, chicken rig it up. Hooks, weights, little low profile size 100 reel, baitcaster reel, and whatever kind of rod that you can afford. Those fish were pretty aggressive as long as you can feel that jig or the weights of whatever you are, then it's balanced for the amount of weight that you're using. Feel it kind of lift, and and when it's loaded up with whatever you have on there, that's all you need.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 25:56

Very good. George, what what do you have? I know you're you're a century guy, so you you've got like the in to the top of mine customs.

George Bucci: 26:05

It's uh yeah, uh it's it's probably it's all that's it's nice to have nice stuff, but it's not necessary. They some of these rods that are coming out now, tsunami makes great rods. They're very affordable. Reel-wise, there's nothing wrong with reel that's not waterproof. If you just if you decided that you were going to be in the water with the reel, you can get old pen reels, you can take them apart and pack them with grease. That virtually makes them waterproof. You know, got that's all guys did before the van stalls, before the Z-basses, before the Visters, all that, you know, Z-bass. They they would just pack their pen reels with grease. And that still holds true today. You can still do the same thing. You know, yeah, the the rods they're making today are are ridiculous. I mean, even the cheap I felt some of these new tsunami rods, and they're just they they feel fantastic. Uh a matter of fact, this kid that I know called me today and he was asking me about he said, I'd like to get a rod, but I can't afford rod. I said, I said, go look at the tsunami elites, the airwave elites, they're fantastic and they're affordable.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 27:01

Yeah, airway airwaves are definitely good. Yeah, definitely. Paul, what's your thought?

Paul - Great Bay Outfitters: 27:06

I totally agree with George. I can't tell you how many fish I've caught on the tsunami classic. It's probably like a $70 rod. It's very versatile. I do use Nexus a lot. I I like Jig and World products, but man, it's it's just such a simple and inexpensive rod, but it performs so well. And I've caught, you know, from cheap sets of sea bass to stripe ass. And if you write if you don't have a huge budget, yeah, I completely agree with George. Go go check out you know the selection of the new tsunami rods, because I think you'll be surprised.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 27:41

Yeah, okay. And I'll I'll just throw in if you want to go super cheap like I do, you know, when you're on a kayak, you have limited room, so I tend to use multi-functional rods. One of my favorites is a TFO Pro, 7'6, medium heavy, and I have a $80 pen fierce on there. I catch fluke with that, I catch sheep's head with that, I catch TOG with that, I catch Bluefish with that, and I've caught an over 50-inch striped bass with that, all with 15-pound braid and whatever liter, depending on what I'm doing. So you can go now, it's not perfect for any of those. Oh, and I've also caught redfish and speckled trout on there. So I mean it's it's versatile. And the rod itself, I think when I bought it, it might even be less expensive now. I think it was 120 and the reel was like 80 bucks. So, you know, for less than less than $200, I literally bring that everywhere. And as a matter of fact, I am bringing that rod on the osprey this weekend because I know, I mean, when you pull up close to, if not over, a 50-pound bass on a rod, you're pretty sure that it can handle anything. Now it can't bounce an eight-ounce weight, but you know, I I can use that for any other species out there that we're gonna run into. All right, so thank you. Those are some good answers. We got a question in here. Heaven and L has a question in here. I'm gonna save hers for later, though. So, so Elle, don't go away. I'm gonna I'm gonna bring it up. Let's see. We have this question. Is there any advice that anyone okay? This is for anybody. Kristen, let's start with you. People that haven't been on headboats or charter boats, but want to start fishing later in the season. What advice do you have for first timers before they book their first trip or going on their first trip?

Kristen McKee - Philly Girl Fishing: 29:40

When you say later in the season, we're talking, you know, fall, winter time. Yep. Hmm. And they've never done party boats before. Right. That's what we were saying. Um, I would say again, I think the bottom fishing is like the easiest thing to do. You know, I always tell people for first timers. Like for example, so you know, I play music at church and people see my post of fishing. They're like, Oh man, you gotta take me fishing. So my first question is, How good are you with motion sickness? Number one. Do we need to go fish a pier or are we gonna be on a boat? But then besides that, it's a matter of, you know, the easiest thing to me is gonna be seabass and porties. You put clam on a hook and wait until you to feel it tug and then start reeling up. That's kind of the easiest way that I can teach them. I did take a couple of beginners out and fluking, and it was tough. She managed to catch a short, but she was so excited. Like that was such a fun day for her. She she picked up on it. But for a lot of people, I think those can be a little bit more challenging. So I would say definitely don't be afraid to ask the you know, captain. You know, I you can message them on Facebook nowadays. Some people, you know, you want to call them either either way and kind of ask, hey, I'm new, you know, what should I bring? Most people do, most of the websites do kind of list, you know, what you do need to bring. But I say the easiest thing is reach out to the captain, you know, the day before or a couple days before the trip and just ask those questions. And don't be afraid to ask those questions because those mates are there to help you. They'll teach you about how to put the bait on the hook and you know what kind of stuff would you use. But definitely that that would be my suggestion. Go go in October when Seabass is open, and you should have pretty good action to start with.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 31:22

Okay, very good. Anyone else have something you want to throw on there?

Paul - Great Bay Outfitters: 31:25

Yeah, dress warm if you're going out there right now. Jesus. That's that part. Dress warm, layers, right? Layer, layer up, and waterproof if you can do it. Pay attention to the maids, pay attention to what other people are doing on the boat, because you can pick up a lot. Don't stay like when I'm on a party boat or a charter, I'm not I'm not there for the show. You know, if somebody's catching on the other side of the boat, I'm gonna move around. So just just pay attention, you know, head on the swivel, open your eyes, open your ears, and learn from other people.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 31:56

Very good. I'll I'll go back to your motion sickness thing. If you're not sure, take dramamine the night before and take it the morning of. If you wait, and and if you do get seasick, you'll still feel you'll know, even though you took it, you just won't get sick or as sick if you take the dramamine. But if you don't take it the day before and you're going to get seasick, it's not gonna help. You're you're pretty well done in. So if you're unsure, just buy it, take it. And if you go through the whole next day and you feel nothing, you probably weren't going to get sick. But for a $12 package of dramamine, you know, it'll make your $150 plus dollar trip that much more enjoyable. Nobody wants to.

Paul - Great Bay Outfitters: 32:40

That boat is not turning around. So you you have to know it, brother.

Kristen McKee - Philly Girl Fishing: 32:46

Consider insurance. Man, it reminds me of summer times when the families would get on for the afternoon food trips and be kind of like they're excited and they're like trying to surf the waves at the front of the boat and having a good time. We always laugh and give them about 45 minutes that they're gonna be laying down on the bench, either outside or inside, or their heads in a bucket because they they thought it was fun and didn't realize that uh yeah, it didn't take germamine or bonine or get the the patch. The people get the the little uh patch. So yeah.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 33:15

Yeah.

Kristen McKee - Philly Girl Fishing: 33:15

Don't be afraid.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 33:16

Do something. And and I I don't think people realize just how many regulars on these boats get seasick. And they take, but they take the stuff beforehand and they are like regulars, like on all the time, at least once, twice a week for some of them. Some of these older guys that I've met on these boats are out there every freaking time I'm on there, and they always have a patch on. So, you know, and and if you don't get seasick, just keep in mind everybody is capable of getting seasick, even if you don't. I've never been seasick, but I am certainly capable of it. And it's if it happens, it's gonna happen. So yeah, keep that in mind. George, do you have anything you want to add on that or are you good?

George Bucci: 33:58

I mean, I'm not much of a togger. I do it, I'll do it once in a while, but I try to tell people to have some patience. You know, have a little bit of patience and and learn how that bite feels. I mean, I I took a guy out who never did it before, and there were six of us on the boat, new charter boat. He got the first rod and he dropped it down and he got bit instantly, and he just was jerking and jerking it. And I said, that that poor Todd probably has a stiff neck now watching that bait going up and down so fast. So once he learned to have a little patience, we start putting fish in the boat.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 34:30

Yeah. All right. And here's here's one that I'll throw in there from KC D. Don't bring bananas on the boat. Just don't do it. Yeah, and that's actually one that'll annoy people if you do it. Some people will actually get annoyed if you do it because apparently it's true that you can't have bananas on a boat. I don't personally believe it, but there are people that get really upset when you, you know, they spend all that money and you brought bananas. They think it curses the boat. So that's a good point. All right. You you're not going to, or you are?

Paul - Great Bay Outfitters: 35:05

I am.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 35:06

You are. It won't bother me. I think Scotty's bringing up the. How many bunches are you bringing? I'll read the whole boat. I'm down with the banana. There you go. Little tiny guys. All right. So here's one. George, this one's a good one for you. So this is this is one of the most common questions that I get throughout the year. And I can't tell you how many times I try to answer this via text, and it takes like an hour of texting back and forth. And let's just let's kind of narrow in on this time of year, even though it's generally a more general question depending on the time of year. If you're going to go fishing for striped bass from the beach and you don't have any reports, like you don't have a network, you don't know where they are right now, but you're going to go down to the beach and you're like, I got to go fishing today. What are you specifically looking for on a beach before you hit that beach and start throwing lures out there?

George Bucci: 36:04

I'm looking for birds. I'm looking for bait. You know, if it's a sunny day, finding the bunker will be easy. If there's just birds picking in the wash, it's probably going to be sand eels. So you're going to know what kind of what kind of bait you're going to be throwing. If it's sand eels, you can throw metal, you can throw skinny profiles if it's bunker. And generally I'll pick an area, and that area could be 10 miles, that could be 20 miles, or sometimes it could be even, you know, up to 40 miles of an area that I'm going to work. And maybe I'll start to the north and work my way south, or maybe I'll start south and work my way north. And it's amazing how you can be a mile away from incredible action. And if you're not moving constantly, looking for that bait to see where these fish are are pushing the bait in, that you know, it could be literally next to you. But if it's around like sort of a bend on the coastline, you're not going to know it unless you keep moving until you f actually find some action.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 36:59

So so let's let's take this. Let's say you're you're gonna start north and work your way home. So you're heading south. Yeah. You're you're you're pulling up to a beach, you're jumping onto the beach, you're fishing it for a while, you know, you saw some birds or or whatever, some sand eels in the wash. You're fishing there and now it's time to move. Are you just jumping in the car and you're moving a mile at a time, two miles?

George Bucci: 37:20

It'll that'll that'll depend how quick how quickly the action's moving. This particular year, it's been a lot of movement. I mean, it seems like the fish are moving faster than the bait. So you, you know, a lot of times if I see it setting up, if I see them pushing, actively pushing bunker in, I may set up two blocks south of that and just be patient and let it come to me. And then there's other times where I'll just I'll jump right into it if maybe they haven't pinned on a jetty or pinned in a like maybe a on a bar, right? And I'll jump right into it because those fish may not actually move for a little bit of time. So it's and then it's there's been a lot of that this year where the fish seemed this year, they seem to come in and out. They would come in for five or ten minutes and then they would push out, and then they would pop down the beach maybe two blocks, and the bait was just flying. So I actually invested in a an electric bike this year because I'm tired of walking. I'm just gonna ride the electric bike down the beach with the fish now.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 38:17

That's a great idea.

George Bucci: 38:19

Yeah.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 38:19

By the way, Paul sells electric bikes.

Paul - Great Bay Outfitters: 38:21

Oh my god. I think that's so cool. I have like a fat tire e-bike. Yeah, a yak attack crate on it with rod holders. I mean, I tricked it out. And the thing handles sand so well. I was surprised. I was really surprised.

George Bucci: 38:39

Yeah, I got a couple buddies that you know it's it's tough to compete with that one. You know, all of a sudden that you see three blocks away, you see the fish push in, and I go, All right, let me get my old ass down there. And my buddies hop on their electric bikes and go zipping down there, and they have two or three fish before I even get there.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 38:53

Yeah, and you're out of breath.

George Bucci: 38:54

Yo, I've I've there were many days where I walked five, ten miles this year.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 38:59

Yeah, that I I can't do that. I'm out. I'm out on that one. I'm I'm jumping on the back of your bike. I'm jumping in that yak attack box.

Paul - Great Bay Outfitters: 39:05

And Rich is gonna be on the handlebars.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 39:08

Yeah, yeah. I'm sitting on the I'm sitting on the handlebars. I'm behind George just holding his waist. Slow down, George.

George Bucci: 39:19

Pull one of those little kitty things that they attach to the back of the bike and just sit down.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 39:22

Oh yeah, put me in a little trailer. I'm in. Kristen, you in? We'll we'll get in the trailer. We'll pull on George.

Kristen McKee - Philly Girl Fishing: 39:29

I think the trailer is more is more fitting. Yeah.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 39:33

All right. So what what do you do if you don't see anything? And you're just like, you know, you don't see anything anywhere. Do you still go down and check troughs or anything like that?

George Bucci: 39:42

Yeah, I mean, you know, you can work back and forth. There's I mean, it's the kind of thing where, especially in the fall, where it may not happen till till noon. So sometimes I may just, if I if I think that there's going to be an area, maybe there was fish the day before, and I'll go maybe a mile south of where they were the day before and just be patient. You got to have some patience. And like, you know, we've talked about before, there's the surf cameras are up and down the whole coast now. So while I'm sitting there watching the water, I'm watching to see what the boats are doing because the boats will be a dead giveaway, especially the party boats. They'll get on it, you know. And if you know, you get a couple boats together, it attracts more boats. And then you'll have an idea of maybe where the fish are and if they're going to be able to push some bait in or not. You know, these boats have the they got the best electronics. So they're not stopping just to drop some lines, they're stopping because they're marking fish.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 40:34

Right. Well, for striped bass. Yeah. For fluke, they're just stopping because the guy next to them stopped.

George Bucci: 40:39

Yeah, that's yeah.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 40:40

All right. Here, here's a follow-up question that in the chat. Do you still find success on the pencils when those fish are on sand eels?

George Bucci: 40:48

Yes. Yes, yes, I do. Yeah, because a lot of times they push the sand deals to the surface. So uh they're just looking for something wiggling across the and a lot of times you may have to downsize that pencil. Maybe I'll go from something in the you know eight-inch range and I'll just downsize to a small pencil, like a five or six-inch Cordell or a five or a five-inch, the tiny uh Guppy pencils. Guppy makes a great little pencil, you know, something a little smaller, small profiles, and a lot of times that'll trigger a lot more bites than the bigger pencils.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 41:20

Is what are you what are you throwing first for sandals?

George Bucci: 41:23

For sandals, I you know, I don't like to throw the Ava jigs. I will throw Ava jigs, but you know, SP minnows, long skinny profile things. Anything that's got a long skinny profile, I prefer to get everything I can on top order. I just love a top order strike. So I'll throw pencils to the point of fall. And, you know, while everybody's catching fish, I'm gonna try to get that one pencil strike.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 41:50

Okay, very good, very good. Let's see. Let me find the next question here. Paul, this one's probably a good one for you. What's the best source for finding kayak launch points? The question was actually for New York, but let's just say in general, what what are some sources that you use to find kayak launch points?

Paul - Great Bay Outfitters: 42:12

So I do a lot of scouting, like in Virginia, for example. I knew nothing about it. Once I down to Kate Charles, I opened up Google Maps and I just scoured every inch of that coastline. And you don't need much to launch a kayak. So you know, Google Earth, Google Maps are definitely a friend. It's not difficult. Uh I'll identify areas of interest and then I'll drive there physically. Just like when I moved to uh Larry Harper. I knew nothing about this. And I was able to find, you know, probably a dozen good spots to put in just from Google Maps. There is a GoPadling, I think, app. I don't find it like great. No, it's not. It's very like generic, and I don't really trust other people's. It's kind of like you know, when people check their fishing spots on maybe on it's like a lot of it is just wrong. So I don't really trust that. So you you have to put your time in. This is the time to do this. Like over the winter, I spend a ton of time trying to find new spots to put in, trying to scout for you know pieces where I where I can tog. So that's how I kill a lot of my winners just pouring over computer screens and and you know, Google Maps and Abe Honics.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 43:29

Yeah, I I I gotta say it's Google Maps for me. The GoPaddling app, it'll stick you places where you can't park and you'll get towed, like Brigantine, for example. You can't even get to this spot anymore, but there's a spot on there in Brigantine, New Jersey, where it says that you can launch, you'll you'll actually get towed if you launch there.

Paul - Great Bay Outfitters: 43:48

The casinos are really important to follow up physically. Go there, Scotty spot.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 43:54

Yeah, just be just be careful about where you're going. I I do say this be very careful where you launch and assuming that you it's a good spot just because you can get the kayak to the water. There are spots, and I'll bring a very specific one where you can launch. It is very well known. I'm not blowing up a kayak launch. It's it's down at Hereford Inlet, the bridge right there. And you can launch right at the base of the bridge. But what you need to know is that if it's at low tide, you are one step into 40 feet of water. It is a sheer cliff into 40 feet of water. So there are times where you don't want to go there because you can't get out without kind of diving onto the onto the sod bank. And there's certain winds that you don't want to be there because it gets really dangerous. You know, you stand when you step off onto that sod, it can break. And then all of a sudden you're in direct inlet flow in 40 feet of water, and it's going to be pushing you away from there. So it looks great. I will launch there sometimes, but I actually prefer to take a two-mile or I think it's a one-mile trip around Nummy Island in order to get there than launch at that spot. So uh I I just I'll just caution people about that. Just be careful, make sure you scout it out and look at the depths too, because it does matter. And on the flip side, I launched at Staten Island once, looked like a great spot. Man, it was perfect, but I didn't think about low tide. And when I came back in after a very long day out on the Rariton, I'm exhausted, tons of straight bass. What a great day! And it was low tide, getting lower, and it ended up being like a quarter of a mile pull of the kayak, but it wasn't just like it wasn't sand, it was mud and boulders. And I'm dragging my kayak, a hundred and some pound kayak, over this thing. It was the worst. I I think I might have cried on the way. So it was so bad. In a dry suit. Oh my god. So I'm sweating, you know, it was probably filled up from sweat at that point.

Paul - Great Bay Outfitters: 45:58

So yeah, this is great. I mean, you know, blow outside, you could be wading through, you know, two feet of muck. It's not, it's not fun. You know, you'll literally sink to your knees. Yeah. And you know, when you're dragging a you know, 120 to 140 panic kayak with gear, it ain't fun, man. So watch the ties, absolutely.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 46:18

Yeah, it's it's it can be brutal. It can be brutal, and especially when it's mud, you know, and the mud that stink won't get off you, at least not very quickly. All right. So we have a question from from L having an L outdoors, which I think is an interesting question. Now, I'm gonna tell everyone right now, there's a little bit of blasphemy in this, so get ready. So here's a question. I have a controversial question for everyone. Does anyone else feel fishing burnout by the time winter arrives? I know blasphemy. Let's go around the horse. So, okay, George, let's let's flip your seasons. So you get started when everyone else is stopping. Like your big season is the fall, right?

George Bucci: 47:01

I I prefer spring. I'm right now, I'm cooked. I'm cooked. I you are burned out. Yeah, I am completely burned out right now. Yes. Okay. All right. Yeah. Uh it'll and it'll probably take me probably till sometime in the end of December, maybe right after Christmas, and then I'll start getting the itch, and then I'll start to probably wander south.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 47:26

Okay. All right. So, all right. So there's there's another blasphemer with you, L. So George and you are both in on that that side of it. Kristen, how about you?

Kristen McKee - Philly Girl Fishing: 47:36

Yeah, I mean, uh, I uh I can definitely say last weekend was was rough. That almost had me. I I joked with with a couple of my friends and said I'm I'm done fishing for two weeks, and literally it works out because I'll be on your trip this Monday. But yeah, no, we were fishing in the rain. 40, I don't know, it was probably 40 something degrees. It probably felt like 30 something with the wind chill, and the forecast was just wrong. You know, just wrong. I brought a poncho over my stormer thinking that would be fine because it was kind of like supposed to just drizzle through the day. Rain, like legit rain. Everything is soaked. I cut my thumb on like my GoPro camera case thing. So I have like it's the thumb that I need to like, you know, spool the line with. So I'm like, gushing blood, it's raining, I'm cold. I'm like, the bite wasn't there. Those it's tough. It's it's tough. Like that's those are the moments where it's kind of like, whoo, I could be home, you know, drinking coffee, playing Call of Duty, and anything. But I'm here. I'm here. So I say, hey, and then when it does happen, though, take a break. And you know, that is something I will definitely do and go try some of my other hobbies for a little bit, and kind of similar to what George was saying, then come back. You know, once you get that itch, you just come back to it, go back to some warmer places. That's usually when I start to migrate down to the Maryland and Virginia for some talk and it's a little bit warmer, just slightly marginally. You won't see me up north at all. And you know, try your luck down there.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 49:02

All right, so you're on a two-week hiatus. George, you're just coming off a 21-day bender, so we we get it. We get it. Paul, how about you? You you burn out at all?

Paul - Great Bay Outfitters: 49:12

It kind of depends on how many charters I'm invited on. Sometimes you get into this, you know, stretch. Look, like you get invited on like fishing fever on manga, you don't turn those trips down, right? So, you know, you you get out, you fish. But man, like I'm not, I mean, I'm 54 years old, but damn, like I can't be at the rail for, you know, an entire day, multiple days a week. That's when I get burned out. Like, you know, I love fishing with Jedi, but you know, like, you ain't going home until the box is full. So, you know, you're you're after. That kills me. If I commit to too many charters in in a short period of time, as much as I love fishing with those captains, it it it kills me. I I feel like but I do like to fish year-round and a lot of guys plus my jobs about the white perch, but you know, ever since I discovered white perch, you know, like hype fishing, this is what gets me to the winter, you know? Yeah, like you know, I I like white perch fishing now, and and you know, it gives me more content for my page to the winter because I can post some reports, you know, it just kind of keeps me engaged. So yeah, I I've I've lightened up on on a charter business uh recently just because it just it kicks my butt.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 50:33

Yeah, I I feel the same way. I mean, I did it fishing professionally as a coach for a couple of years and it it wasn't fun. With that said, I still want to fish year-round. I don't want to take big breaks unless I have to, but I physically can't do the everyday anymore. You know, getting old, I just can't do it. Like George, if we were to go, if you said, Rich, we're gonna meet and I'm gonna show you what it's like to start fish with me for a day, honestly, without exaggeration, I could probably physically keep up with you for about 45 minutes. And then I'd be like physically done. Like, I'm done. I just can't do it. I just don't have the stamina to do it and uh and everything. So I'm starting to feel it more. So to that point, I think we all agree. Yeah, everybody does get some burnout. I think all of us do. But it goes into another question that we had. Actually, the first one I got when I posted this. How do you know when we cross over from fishing as a fishing for fun into fishing as a chore? And I think it goes with this. Like I think we all get into that where you go because you think you have to.

George Bucci: 51:46

Oh, I it's every day. Yeah. Every day. I I it's almost like, you know, I can't tell you how many times, you know, I find myself, you know, getting up at one o'clock in the morning and I'm driving up to the Rariton or 12 o'clock, you know. I get to bed at eight, nine o'clock, and then I and get up at 12 o'clock for an alarm so I can catch a tide at 1 30 in the morning. Right. And you know, you get and you're saying to yourself, what am I doing? You know what am I doing? I I'm I'm standing in the middle of the Rariton Bay by myself at at 2 o'clock in the morning, you know. Yeah. And you you question your sanity. And you know, you wonder, you know, is it is it really worth it? Uh uh, how many fish do I need to catch to feel satisfied? And but then you get that first fish, and then you, you know, and then it all comes rushing back while you're doing it.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 52:34

But then it does return when you get back in the truck and you're like, oh my god, I got a two-hour drive back on four hours of sleep, and I got work tomorrow.

George Bucci: 52:41

Yeah, I mean, and I'm I'm 58 years old, you know. I keep I I keep saying, you know, this is gonna be my last year doing it hard. This is my last year, but I've been saying that for about six or seven years now.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 52:51

Yeah, we have records of you saying that on this show.

unknown: 52:53

Yeah.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 52:56

Kristen, what do you think? When when does it pass?

Kristen McKee - Philly Girl Fishing: 52:59

I mean, I think similar to kind of what Paul was saying, you know, there were seasons where it was like everybody wants to bite me on a charter. So it was like, okay, I gotta take this. Is this captain? Is this captain? I was running up and down. Like, I I think one year from my birthday, I literally drove and fished in three different states in three different days. Okay, so I went, I got invited up, I was off. It was it was for my birthday, so it was in the in the summertime. So I was off, drove to Rhode Island to go fish for Fluke, then came back, fished. Well, now he's monger, but with Captain Alex on point, well, was on point, but monger now. So fished with him the next day, and then had a tile fish trip the next day in Maryland. And each time in between, I stopped in my hometown and went to sleep and for like two hours and got back on the road. And by the time I got to the towel fish trip, we were fishing like, I don't know, 800 feet of water, which I probably went out in additional 200 yards of line to like a thousand feet with like a five-pound weight. I was so tired. I barely had the energy to catch that foul towel fish that I did catch that day. So I do think that like when that burnout happens, it's because you know I'm being teamed too much, like I tend to do. You know, we we get excited when we feel literally we call it the drug of the tub, right? We get excited for it. So it's like, oh, I get a chance to go here, I can physically catch this big fish. But at the end of the day, to me, that's just that's more of a frequency problem versus just actually fishing being the problem.

George Bucci: 54:29

So when the dust is too much extra dust settles from something like that, you know, and you you recover, you look back on it though, and you and you say, Boy, that was great, you know.

Kristen McKee - Philly Girl Fishing: 54:38

Oh, yeah, I can tell the story now. You know, I'm the youngest one of everybody, but I definitely feel the difference, you know. Five years later, when I first started doing this, and I was running up and down and and you know, fishing more from land and and all of that and trying to look for spots. So, same thing. Fishing on a metal boat all day, you know, yeah, it it hurts. It hurts your joints a little bit. So you gotta, it's just to me, it's tempering it. Don't lose the love for it, you know what I mean? Take a break, come back, and then you know, I'm sure it'll still be there. But it just might be that time when we're getting burnt out from doing too much. So portion control.

George Bucci: 55:14

I've tried the whole fish smarter, not harder thing, and it just doesn't work for me.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 55:18

Well, so that's that's one of the things that actually brings up this question or this comment that you know you're you're turning fishing into a chore, is when we go into how to find spots and the things that you can do to make your day more productive. And people are like, I just want to hit the water and drop a line and catch a fish. It's like that's fine. That's different fishing than what we're typically talking about. And on this channel, look, I we we tend to focus on the how-to more than anything. And it can seem like it's you know, it's not just science. Like I do go fishing and I don't have a plan. I just hit the water and you know, I just fish for what I for whatever I catch. I have an idea of where to go, but I didn't research it. But you know, the first time that we ever had that comment, Mahalik was on. He's like, and this is how you this is how you set the hook, and this is what you're doing. And that he went through very, very specifically. And the one guy was like, he's like, it's not fun. It doesn't sound fun, but there's you know, there's a difference. Is if to Frank, that's not a chore. That's that's how he gets to his fun, but there's different ways to do it, I guess. Paul, you run into that?

Paul - Great Bay Outfitters: 56:27

Yeah, I mean I I think I I've recognized that recently in the last couple of seasons. So I'm I'm really trying to pick my first of all, I'm being a lot more selective about the company that I I fish with. I don't like people who, you know, yell, scream, get bent up. Like, I'm kind of with Mihalik. Like he fishes with gentlemen. I don't need drama in my life. Like if I'm on a boat, especially on a on a trunk with guys that are getting, you know, pissy, I I it affects me. I I don't have fun. So I cut a lot of people out of my circle just because I don't enjoy fiction with them. And I also I picked my days, you know. The other day we went out, got the snop kicked out of us on a 20-foot boat and you know, six-foot seas. I cut a double-digit tog, which was nice, but I hated life. You know, like we're we're coming back in the following sea, and you know, head on a swivel because you gotta pay more attention to the stern than the back because you know, a a six, eight-foot wave could swap the motor. Like, this wasn't fun. Like, I don't I don't belong out there. So I I think I've recognized that you know, I I've caught enough fish. I'm not, you know, the world's greatest angler. I just I want to have fun. This is probably another reason why I don't create content. Like, you know, like if I had to put out a video, like I give a lot of props to you know guys like Joe from 609 fishing and and chapters the act. These guys are out of every freaking weekend, and and they gotta put enough, you know, content on tape to last them through the winter also. That's a lot of work. This is not for me. You know, God bless them. They're having fun, that's great. You know, they make a couple of bucks. This is not for me. I would I'm never gonna be the guy that's that's creating, you know, content week in, week out, because I know that's what it's gonna be a job, and I'm gonna hate fishing.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 58:22

Yeah, and that's one of the reasons that I stopped doing that. I I'll do a video every now and then, but uh I'll do the live streams because it's fun. Editing videos for you know, going through eight hours of video.

Kristen McKee - Philly Girl Fishing: 58:35

Kristen, you know what's oh boy, I I'm still I'm still back up in the summertime.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 58:40

So yeah, it is tough, and then you get that extra stress. Gotta put out a video, gotta put out a video, gotta catch something, gotta do something, which is why you see these lunatic YouTubers out there pretending that they caught sharks while floating out on like you know an inflatable unicorn. You know, everyone knows it's not true, but they do it because they just need something. You know, I've caught this in this sewer. No, you didn't. You didn't catch that in the sewer, you idiot. But you know, they they need something, and it's easier to do that than it is to actually go out and catch fish. And yeah, it's it's not as much fun for me. Yeah, it it kind of crossed that line. And to your point, Paul, you don't make a lot of money. You you could have 20,000 subscribers, you're not making a lot of money on it at all. On a per hour basis, it's pennies.

Paul - Great Bay Outfitters: 59:24

I I love what like I love you know, watching 609 fishing. You know, he's he's got good, he's just such a good angler, you know. Like I learned so much from him. I you know, I get to fish with with Joe a few times a year. We do the tagging video for for robbers. The guy's just amazing. I mean, he I I enjoyed that that episode the the day that we went out, that's probably my by far my favorite day this summer. You know, I just it was a bunch of good guys, you know, we did a good thing for for robbers. And it was just fun, you know. No pressure, you know, we we did our thing. So I I enjoy watching his his content. He's he he's just a really talented guy.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 1:00:08

Yeah, definitely, definitely. I gotta get him back on.

Paul - Great Bay Outfitters: 1:00:12

Not to mention he's part of my pro staff team. So that's true.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 1:00:17

That's true. That is true. Yeah, he he's a good guy, very busy guy, too, though. I mean he does a lot more than just Christianity.

Paul - Great Bay Outfitters: 1:00:23

But that's why I love him. Like he's a family guy, he's you know, he he works hard, he he puts out good content. He's just a good dude.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 1:00:31

Yeah. All right, so we're we're at our hour. I have one question that I promised that I would get on. And this this came in earlier. Actually, it came in about an hour ago. I don't know if you guys know the the answer to this. Kristen, you might, Paul, you might, George, you don't you don't quite care. So you're off the hook on this one. At what temperatures do TOG basically start moving to deeper waters? Does anyone want to take that, or do you just want me to take that?

Kristen McKee - Philly Girl Fishing: 1:01:04

I'm gonna let you take that out of here. I can take a guess based off of when they start biting in New Jersey on the party roads, but I'll I'm gonna let you take that first. I'll chime in for any other color.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 1:01:16

Okay. So my mine's going to be it's it's fact-based, but I'm gonna throw in my own personal observations as well, you know, just to kind of slant it a little bit because look, I can tell you the exact degree, and nobody knows the exact degree, but it people act like they do. So basically, when you're talking about TOG at this time of the year, and the question I think came in because it's like, well, when do I have to stop fishing the backwaters? And when do I have to go out front? And then after I go out front, how how long before I have to get out to 120 feet, you know, and and get to the real deep stuff. So basically, the way that the way that TOG move, you're basically going to have them comfortable and fishable in some quantity and some size in the backwaters until that water gets to around 56 to 53 degrees is kind of the range. And then they'll start to push out. Doesn't mean they leave, they'll start to push out. When you get to around, once you drop below 50, that's like a real trigger point for them. So you think 49, 48 degree temperatures in the water, they're they're pretty much pushing out. They're going out. And the reason is it's not that they're going out for any reason except they're looking for more comfortable water because once they get, I think the number is, I think the number is 45 degrees. Maybe it's a little bit lower than at, maybe 44, 43 degrees. Once they get to that temperature, it becomes very uncomfortable for them. So you look at, you know, optimal temperatures for fish, that just means when are they the most comfortable and feeding the most? And for tog, once you get below that 45 degrees, they're gonna have issues with it and they're gonna push deep. The reason that they push deep is because you get a more consistent water temperature and it will stay, there's a thermocline typically in the water when you get that deep. So they're going to get underneath that thermocline and they're gonna hang there. You also see that in the winter for striped bass. So if there are striped bass in the backwaters and you're in a place where you're allowed to fish for them, look for an area that has a thermocline. They're going to be underneath that, sitting under there, but don't do it. No, you don't think so? No. During the day, they're not going to be sitting under the thermo. I all right, let's hear it. Let's hear it.

George Bucci: 1:03:33

I've caught bass in 30 degree water. With artificials on sandbars in the backwater in January and February.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 1:03:42

But they sit under they they go under for the comfort of that more cons well. Let me ask you this. Is it on a day where the air temperature is warmer than the water temperature?

George Bucci: 1:03:52

Not necessarily.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 1:03:54

No.

George Bucci: 1:03:54

No, I've seen, I mean, uh and and I was kind of right with you for a while. Until until last year.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 1:04:04

Yeah. Really?

George Bucci: 1:04:05

So it all changed.

unknown: 1:04:06

Okay.

George Bucci: 1:04:06

Yeah, it all it all changed for me. I mean I think that what happens is I think there, you know, because we have a lot of holdover fish. We have a lot of holdover fish, you know, and okay. You know, the whether or not we're allowed to fish for them, that's a whole different topic, okay, in in the state of New Jersey. But you can go to Connecticut and fish the Housatonic River for holdovers, or you can go to Maryland and fish the catch and release season. And and New Jersey shouldn't be any different. But I've literally uh seen artificials caught in 30 degree water that wasn't frozen, but you had to break ice to get to the unfrozen water. And I think these feed the feeds they they're just smaller. What they'll do is they'll feed for a shorter period of time. The activity of these fish is just a shorter period of time, but they're just as active in that short period of time. They're very aggressive in 30 degree water as they are in 43 degree water, but it's just a smaller window.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 1:05:03

All right.

George Bucci: 1:05:05

And and I mean if I threw number that.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 1:05:07

I'm getting distracted by the chat at the same time.

George Bucci: 1:05:10

If I if I threw numbers that yeah, I mean if I I mean what I've seen as far as the amount of fish that hold over in New Jersey waters is it's ridiculous.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 1:05:20

So okay.

George Bucci: 1:05:21

And I'm probably gonna take some heat for that, but no, I well, not for me.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 1:05:25

Look, I I think I've been pretty consistent saying I don't know everything, and I am very happy to be corrected, especially when people see things different than what I see. Yeah. So I'll go back to what I was saying. Thermocline is a good indicator of the more consistent water temperature, but you can catch them in 30-degree water on bars. So for those very fast, but as far as the TOG, that's when they are going to start moving more to the deeper wrecks, which is why right now in the season for the headboats, they're in tighter to shore, they don't have to push out because the tog, we don't have to go anywhere yet. They're still very comfortable in the water temperatures that we're seeing right now.

Kristen McKee - Philly Girl Fishing: 1:06:06

So yeah, that's about the only part that I can kind of add, like just knowing because again, I'm not really fishing based. I don't do kayaks. I'm a big girl. I know we can be on kayaks, but my comfortability on being on a kayak is non-existent thus far. But when I get there, Paul, I know you're the first one to go to because I I've had friends tell me all different types that I can try. I'm like, we're gonna start slow. I digress. So anyway, the party boats, like how far, what kind of wrecks are we doing? Are we fishing closer to shore? So I feel like, especially uh here's an example. You know, when I went out what three weeks ago, went out to James Joseph, so that was on the Bay side on New York, Long Island. I've never fished over there before. So I said, let's give it a shot. They had some good pictures up, but understanding that the temperature change for there, like when I got there, I was probably about two weeks too late for when it was starting to die down. And so the ocean side, and i.e., like where we are in Jersey, is where it's kind of starting to pick up. Obviously, our season opens. So I would say being on the party boats, knowing that it's usually a little tough, like right when it opens mid-November, we're fishing closer to the shore, smaller little wrecks and rocks and things like that that are closer in. Once we start getting mid-December into like mid-ish January, and it depends on the season. That's when we're kind of going out to those deeper wrecks. Once we get past, if I'm fishing still in Jersey, once we get past mid-January to whatever boats are still going out, let's say mid-February, now we're trying to hit those really, really far wrecks because again, like what you what you said is what people have told me about the thermoclimb and that temperature. So I never came to the exact temperature, but around that 50-degree mark was what people have murmured to me. So that's kind of what I'm aware of. Everything after that, I would just say, just based off of what the party boats do, that's how I've tracked how far these fish must be moving out.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 1:07:56

Well, yeah, I mean, you you see people that make their living doing something, it it does add weight to it. And I'll put George in that category as well. It may not be his living, but he treats it like I mean, when you work less days than you fish in a month, it's essentially his job. He knows where to find those fish. So George, I I want to go back and now we got to do a whole show on cold water fishing at some point. And Paul, you got to come in because I I I love that white perch fishing. I absolutely, and they're the smallest fish that I will target all year, and I absolutely love fishing for them. I don't care if it's 20 degrees out, I'm hitting that water, and I'm that to me is so much fun.

Paul - Great Bay Outfitters: 1:08:39

I it's a lot of fun. They're tasty fish. I actually prefer the white perch over sea bass.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 1:08:45

It's too it's too cold to clean them. I just throw them back, it's too cold.

Paul - Great Bay Outfitters: 1:08:50

Yeah, well, give them to me next time.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 1:08:52

All right, I'll give them to you. I'll give them to you. All right, is there anything that we missed as far oh I I I'm gonna do this because it's my nephew who put the comment in there. Uh I'm gonna answer his question. So he's going Sunday. So Dominic says, Uncle Rich, are you gonna pick us up for the fishing trip in your white rusty van with free candy written on the side? Yes, Dominic, that is the that is the vehicle I'm bringing down. And the only reason I'm doing it is because I know you and your brother would fall for it. So yes. That's what we're doing. That's what we're gonna roll up to uh the Osprey on Sunday. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So uh thanks guys for coming on. It's a good episode. I I learned George, I'm gonna be I'm gonna be thinking about that for quite a while now.

George Bucci: 1:09:40

You gotta look at the you gotta look at the Chesapeake Bay, Rich, and and see what they do down there in the winter and how far those fish push up into the Chesapeake Bay, and that'll give you all your answers. I mean, uh it's a it's an incredible fishery in the winter, mostly.

Paul - Great Bay Outfitters: 1:09:55

What's that, Paul? I think it's like I love it. It's like late show controversy. We're about to wrap up, and then you and George just have differing opinions. Love it.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 1:10:04

Well, see, yeah, so now I'm thinking I gotta get to the Chesapeake now, and and Paul, you know I'm gonna drag you with me.

Paul - Great Bay Outfitters: 1:10:13

You're really gonna have to twist my arm. I'll let me tell you.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 1:10:16

Yeah, yeah. Well, we'll we'll have to go down in the for some winter fishing where we can, when we can. Um, but off air. It's not for on air. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. All right, everyone, thanks for for tuning in. If you're gonna be again on the trip on Sunday on the Osprey, make sure you introduce yourself. It's literally the only sold-out trip for the Osprey that I've seen. So I'm guessing the vast majority of people are going to be us. Um, yeah, might have a giveaway too. Uh, we've got one of my local tackle shop up here is saying they're gonna try to throw something together. So who knows what the hell is gonna happen? All I know is that we're gonna catch more than starfish this time and uh and a single lobster. We're gonna have fun out there. So, everyone, until then, don't get out there in the water tomorrow. It's gonna be brutal weather, but try to hit the water in advance so we can talk about that. And everyone else, we'll see you Sunday. And if not, we'll see you Monday with a recap. Everyone, get out there, get on the water, get some tight lines.