EP 53: Tackling Tautog with Frank Mihalic - Roasters to Jumbos

Cold water finally clicked the “on” switch, and we leaned all the way into it: a full tautog system that works from New Jersey reefs to Rhode Island boulder fields. We brought Frank Mahalik on to open the tackle bag and the playbook—how to lock your drag without popping fish, why a mono top shot turns a broomstick into a shock absorber, and the exact V-rig that puts a whole white crab in the strike zone without helicoptering in heavy current. If you’ve ever wondered whether weight spooks fish, you’ll love the segment on fishing a true slack line with a 10 oz sinker so the bait sits and the tog can move it like a fluke drift.

We get specific about hooks because that’s where heartbreak lives. Heavy-wire, short-shank cutting points—think Owner octopus and the promising SaltX and Z Blade styles—pair with a Century Pro Togger and a star drag you can crank to “murder.” That combo wins the first 20 feet, holds fish off the wreck, and ends fights fast. We talk jigging in shallow, oxygen-rich water where nine-pounders pull like teens, why Rhode Island barnacles demand 60 to 80 lb leaders, and when to swap to a single-hook, small-crab rig to beat ripping current. Add the red sinker trick to cut dogfish and protect your next legit bite.

Bait logic stays simple and honest: whites offshore, greens inshore, hermits only if you love a single tick and a reload. We wrap with two pillars that matter just as much as your knots: cold-water safety—dry suits save lives—and conservation that’s easy to follow. We keep males under seven pounds, release big females after a calm livewell ride, and respect the fishery we love. Come for the gear talk, stay for the mindset: fish like a system, not a guess, and surround yourself with anglers who make you better.

If this helped you dial in your next tog trip, follow the show, share it with a fishing buddy, and drop a review telling us your go-to crab and hook combo.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Opening Banter And Show Setup
• 0:19 Sponsors, Safety, And Dry Suit PSA
• 4:29 Guest Intro And Northeast Tog Scene
• 5:07 Rhode Island Trips And Shallow-Water Battles
• 9:02 Culture, Respect, And Who You Learn From
• 12:39 Trip Logistics, Invitations, And Burnout Fix
• 16:12 Focused Fishing Mindset And Speed
• 17:22 Why Century Pro Togger And Locked Drag
• 21:20 Jig Vs Rig, Depths, Line, And Leaders
• 24:36 Weight, Slack Line, And Boat Control
• 28:11 The System: Top Shot, V-Rig, And No Sliders
• 31:05 Crab Rigging Details And Current Solutions
• 34:33 Hooks Matter: Owner, Saltex, And Z Blade
• 39:23 Heavy Conventional vs Jig Tackle Tradeoffs
• 41:12 Baits Ranked: Whites, Greens, Hermits, Spiders
• 44:04 The Red Sinker Advantage And Dogfish
• 48:08 Confidence, Presentation, And Simple Choices
• 49:38 Conservation: Keep Males Under Seven
• 51:17 Closing, Trip Tease, And Seasonal Outlook

Transcript

Frank Mihalic: 0:00

I don't buy this thingy. Oh, you can learn something from everybody. Yeah, you can learn how not to be. If you go watch a horrible fisherman, what are you gonna learn? How not to do something? I mean, who's who's challenging you to really do better?

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 0:19

Hello and welcome back to the Fat Dad Fishing Show. My name is Rich Natoli, your regular host. Tonight we're uh we're being blessed with the presence of Frank McHallic. We're gonna talk about tautog fishing up and down the coast. It is the season, cold weather is finally here. To me, that really marks the kickoff. I'm looking forward to getting out of the water for some tog. I haven't yet looking forward to it. We're gonna jump into this real quick because I have gotten a few texts today saying, uh, you know the birds are playing tonight. And yes, I do know that the Eagles are playing tonight. I do know that they're probably gonna win. At least that's what I'm hoping for. Uh listen, Tog and fishing take precedence every day in this household. Uh well, at least the household part that I'm in charge of. My wife may have something different to say. But uh we we gotta talk, we gotta talk taught, and it's coming up the season opener. Well, I shouldn't say the season opener. The expansion in New Jersey is coming, the limit expansion, so we're gonna get into that. Uh, before that, we need to go and talk about the sponsors of this podcast and live stream. Start off with our number one sponsor, Great Day Outfitters, on Radio Road in Tuckerton, New Jersey. Anything kayak related that you need, natives, old towns, parts, any accessories that you need. Paul and the team at Great Day Outfitters have you covered. They even have different brands available through consignment, selling used kayaks. If there's something you need for kayak, reach out to Paul, reach out to Great Bay Outfitters. And I'm gonna just plug two things real quick. If you want to power your kayak, talk to Paul. He is absolutely insane about uh about the modifications. So if you want to modify your kayak, reach out to Paul. He's got multiple different options, including the Garmin uh motor available for you. The second thing is, and I have to bring this up if you're a kayak fisherman and you're kayak fishing right now or into the spring, please get a dry suit. We've seen multiple people die very recently uh because they're out on the water without a dry suit. People say, you know, don't jump on them for yeah, they made a mistake. Well, listen, it's common sense, it's too cold. All right, don't use this whatever 110 rule, whatever the rules are. Get a freaking dry suit and put it on, it'll save your life. It saved mine once, and I've had other people out with me that have gone in the water, and it's not fun, and it's it's the one thing that people don't think about is if you're out with someone, you go in the water. Whether you have a dry suit or not, you are now everybody's responsibility, and those people that are safe in their kayaks become unsafe trying to rescue you, and it gets even worse and more urgent when you do not have a dry suit on. I typically refuse to go out fishing at this time of the year with anyone that does not have a dry suit. Not because I'm an ass, not because I hate you, just because I don't want that level of responsibility on me. I've got a family that I want to get back to. So that's my little preach. I'll get off the soapbox and we'll jump into our second sponsor, Quad State Tune. Kevin Driscoll is your man. If you have a Toyota truck, Tacoma, Tundra, Forerunner, especially the third the third gen Tacoma. These tunes are for the engines. You spend a lot of money on these great trucks, so why not get them tuned in and get that increased horsepower, horsepower, torque performance that they can get delivered for you? Kevin can set you up with that. If you aren't sure if it'll work for your truck, give him a call, he'll help you out. Again, 4463-35975. And the last one is me, residential real estate. Also, some light commercial work. I do have commercial clients as well. Southeastern Pennsylvania. If you're looking for real estate, buy, sell, invest, give me a call. I am out of the out of the Wiker Cornerstone offices in Bluebell, Pennsylvania, and Collegville. So I have two offices that I am at. Would be happy to help you. My number 267-270-1145 or in atolyrealistate at gmail.com. And with that said, we're gonna jump over to Frank. Enough is enough of me of bringing Frank on stage. Frank, good to see you again, man. Thanks, Rich. You too. I I gotta tell you, I've been we were talking backstage. I have not been out for talk yet, but I was following your trip north of here, which happens to be into the heart of the viewers and listeners of this show. New York and North is actually the majority of our viewers and listeners now, and you were up in their territory fishing, and I cannot wait to hear firsthand how that went for you. So why don't you jump into a little bit of that?

Frank Mihalic: 5:05

Well, let me just share something, man. A couple years ago, everybody kept saying, Oh, you gotta go up to Newport, you gotta go up to Rhode Island. And I'm kind of funny. Like if somebody tells me I have to do something, I'm not doing it. But when enough people say to me, hey Frank, well, you know, we're going on this trip, why don't you come up there with us? Well, that sounds a little different. And I went up there last year and I fished with Mike Littlefield on Archangel, and it was phenomenal. I mean, like Instabite for two days straight, and it was a little nuts. So this year I made two trips. So I went up there for two days last year. This year I went up there for two for two days, two separate times, and I fished on Carl Rose with with Carl, and then I fished on with Captain Connor on oh, what's the name of Connor's boat? Connor just put the new world, the new state record on his boat yesterday on tall on tall tails. Yeah, Connor's no joke. But let me tell you what, bro, those guys up there, those boys can fish. And I'm really realizing something because I got a call from a friend of mine named Ray, who's actually a mate on one of the boats I fished on. And we fished together a few times down here. He came and fished with me with Tom Daffin. And Ray, Ray caught texted me the other night, and we're sitting here talking about rigs. We're sitting here talking about the the V rig and how far up from the hooks do I tie my knot. And well, you know, this is a this is a V rig, okay? It's like a it's just a big loop here. It's a triple, it's a triple surgeon's loop, and it's a couple of owner five-odd hooks, and this is about four inches long. And we had a whole discussion about how long this distance is and how Ray puts a glow bead on there, but I don't put a glow bead because I have this thing about trying to keep the sharks away.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 6:50

Right.

Frank Mihalic: 6:51

But my point is then I I can name a handful of other guys that are like the best at a best. That we have some conversations, man, that are like heavy duty. Like me and Joe Mole, like we can talk about, we can talk about fishing up there for hours and hours, and and that's how I learn. You know, that's how I'm learning to be a better today down here is by talking to guys, guys like that up there.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 7:18

Yeah, I I think it's I I think one of the funniest things that I noticed is there there is the Jersey versus New York thing for those that fish in the Raritan Bay. So if anything ever goes wrong, the you hear go back to Jersey, go back to Long Island, you know. They're yelling at each other. And then here's the thing though, I know guys that fish that are from New York, that are from New Jersey, that are actually most of the New Jersey guys are from Pennsylvania, let's just be honest. And they're all the same, like they everybody grinds. Like it's you know, people say you don't know, you don't grind like Jersey. Yeah, they do. Yeah, they they do grind in New York and they do grind in Jersey, and the tactics are nearly identical, and and they transfer 100%. As far as I've learned on every species that I've ever talked, if you could do it in Long Island, if you could do it in New York, if you could do it in Rhode Island, you could do it in Jersey, you can do it in Maryland. I mean, it just transfers. We're not talking Florida versus Massachusetts here. We're talking the same fishery. Yeah, maybe there's different uh what are they called? Like the tog up in New York are are a whole different population than New Jersey, right? But but they act exactly the same. It's the same freaking tactic.

Frank Mihalic: 8:35

I'll tell you what though, Richie, those fish up there getting them in the shallow water, though.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 8:40

Oh, it's different.

Frank Mihalic: 8:41

Them those tog up there in in Newport and up there in Long Island, they it's like they're mean, man. Like, I mean, they are mean. I mean, I caught a nine-pounder. I thought for sure I had like a 13, 14 pounder. Because when you hook them in 40 foot of highly oxygenated water, they they can't go down. You're it's not a vertical fight anymore. I'm not in a hundred foot of water. It's you know, he has no place to go but out. It becomes a whole different battle. But you know, to your point, the guys that can fish, and whether you're having a good day or a bad day, it doesn't matter. I pull into a parking lot, my first day fishing up there, I look up and I see it's it's 5 30 in the morning. I see a guy drive by me in a dark pickup truck, and I recognize the beard. I'm like, hey, I think that's Sully. I think Sully's up here. I go over there, I'm talking to Sully, then I'm talking to a couple charter captains from Cape Cod, and then I'm talking to a few of my other buddies that I the only time I ever see them is in the parking lot at Newport this time of year. And you know, it's funny because you see them and you go over there and you hug, and hey man, how you doing? And let's go get them. And we're all on different boats, and that's it. I won't see them for another year. But you know what? You have we have respect for each other because we know that we're toggers, we know we're good, and we know we work hard to just be good guys. You know, it doesn't mean I'm any better than anybody else. We just have respect for each other because of what we do.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 10:06

Yeah, well, one of my favorite things is you had invited me on a trip a couple years ago, and we were talking about it, and you were saying, Yeah, I I like to invite gentlemen to fish. Like, and I the people that you mentioned are like they're the helpful, like engaged. It's not that they're all over the place, but they're just like they're helpful with each other, and they're just really great guys. Like Sully, I got to meet him. What a great guy. And he he was not he's not all over the place, but he would just like a little comment in your ear, a little suggestion. It's like, oh, thanks, man. Because he's he's a much better tok fisherman than I am, and I learned that very quickly.

Frank Mihalic: 10:47

Well, you know, Rich, I mean, we go out there to have fun. I'm not go, I'm not going out there to tell people what how I do it, or to tell them what I think they're doing wrong. Unless they're next to me and they're bouncing their sinker on the bottom, then I'm gonna give them the look. Like, uh, quit bouncing that sinker, or you gotta go to the other side of the boat. But that's just it. Guys like that don't get on my trips. You know what I mean? I mean, believe me, man, I got a book of trips, bro. It's like I'm sitting here looking at my here's my here's my book, here's my trips. This is November, this is December. These are all this is the only way I can keep organized with all the names of the guys that are on each trip. Because when I write it on a little calendar in a little square, I don't have the room to write each of the guys' names. And then if somebody crosses off, I got, you know, it's it, I got this little tiny one-inch square. So I started I started using the calendar and this bigger book, so I can just have have a little more room to make a mistake.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 11:48

I've learned that that it's your trips that people want to get on. And and those aren't it, those are only the trips that you're you're kind of coordinating. You've got all the other ones that you're getting invited on to as well.

Frank Mihalic: 12:00

So and that's a thing too, man. It's all about you know, I invited a guy out one time. I invited him out, he's on my trip, and then a couple weeks later, he had a trip and he didn't invite me. And I said, you know what? This is gonna change. This is about reciprocal invitations. If I'm going to invite you on my trips, even if I don't go, I at least, hi babe, how you doing? I at least want to be included. You know, I at least want to be invited. And if I can't go and if I'm working or whatever, that's fine too. But if I'm gonna go through the trouble of inviting you and you're not going to invite me, okay, I'll cross that name right off.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 12:37

Yeah, no, I hear you. I I hear you. I uh well, hey, do you want to go on the trip for the the fat dad fishing show?

Frank Mihalic: 12:44

When is it? December 7th?

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 12:47

December 7th.

Frank Mihalic: 12:49

December 7th. Let me look.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 12:51

And by the way, for anyone that while you're looking, that that day there are there are I think less than 10 spots left on the entire boat.

Frank Mihalic: 12:59

Are you ready? I'm on legal limit with Dennis Mullenforth, Sully, Casper, John Creeley, and Frank Holisi.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 13:09

Uh you know what? I knew I actually knew that because Creeley called me and told me he was like, Yeah, I'm with I'm with Mahalik. I was like, I didn't realize I I thought he was going with you the previous day, though, but he he has he has back-to-back trips.

Frank Mihalic: 13:22

So I started doing something a little different this year, Rich. I mean, I started only I I was chartering every single day, every Saturday and every Sunday. Every Saturday and every Sunday, I'm chartered. And then whenever anybody invites me on fever, I say yes. Whether whatever day of the week it is, I take the day vacation and I go. But in the meantime, it's a you know, I go fishing on a Saturday, I come home, I gotta remember who's on the trip for Sunday. I gotta hurry up, come home, turn around, turn and burn the next day, or it's a bad weather day. And in the meantime, I'm kind of stressing out about things I have to do around the house, and I'm getting really tired. And I was like, you know what? I'm only gonna charter one day on each weekend. I'm still gonna take all the trips on fever that I can, and I'm and I'm gonna enjoy it a little bit more, you know. Because in reality, usually if the trips get weathered out anyway, if a trip on a Saturday gets weathered out and Sunday's nice and I'm not on a charter, I can always go hop on the osprey or something if it's a nicer weather day.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 14:27

Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Well, and the last thing you need is more and more stress just because you're fishing so often, because then you don't have any options. You've already booked it. Right. You're going.

Frank Mihalic: 14:37

I mean, I had a I had a day last year. I think I think it was like between Christmas and New Year's. I think I had five days. I was on five trips, five out of eight trips. Five out of eight days. I was like, man, I'm little little too carried out here.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 14:50

Yeah. Well, hopefully you can put more into each trip this time, this year, and you know, have more fun with it. You're not saving anything for the next day. Right. I tend to do that actually when I have back-to-back trips. I tend to just kind of it feels like I I I go a little less hard on the the first day uh because uh or or I'm dead on the second day.

Frank Mihalic: 15:11

I know, man. I just go in my corner, I just go to work, I just I just zone out and you know, as quick as I can get that crab to the bottom, catch a fish, unhook them, new crab, step on it, back to the bottom, get another one. It's I just like I get in such a zone, man. I just really enjoy that that focus.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 15:29

Well, we need to talk, we need to dive into those tactics. So for those that are unaware, Frank, I mean, look, you you you put on clinics on how to target TOG. You are the architect of the century pro Togger. So, you know, when it comes down to the technique and the rods that are made that really help you to maximize your ability to not just hook, but actually get these fish out of you know the pieces and free and clear, you know what you're doing, and and you're you're advising, you know, you're advising Sentry on how to how to make the equipment. So that's why I love I love having you on, and you love sharing the information. You've mentioned already names like Dennis Mullenfort, I would love to meet him someday. Sully, what a great guy. He he still has the New Jersey state record, right?

Frank Mihalic: 16:20

So yeah, you know, absolute class guys, man. Every guy that I fish with is a class guy, class guy, no doubt.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 16:26

Yeah, yeah, those are all guys that you know would love to meet. And and it's uh, you know, when you surround yourself with people like that, you can't help but pick stuff up, too. Right? You're not only sharing, but you're picking things up.

Frank Mihalic: 16:39

Well, that's what happens. As you get better and better, as you become a better and better fisherman, you can be the big fish in the little pond and you feel like you're good, but who are you learning from? And I don't don't I don't buy this thing. Oh, you can learn something from everybody. Yeah, you can learn how not to be. If you go watch a horrible fisherman, what are you gonna learn? How not to do something? I mean, who's who's challenging you to really do better? You know, I'll tell you what, you should be on fever when you hear a conversation between you know some really skilled guys, and where's we start, we got a kind of whole conversation with Tom Daffin about how come he ties a snafu with a five-turn a five-turn dropper loop. Why's it got to be five turns? It it was about a half-hour conversation. I swear to God, it was funny as hell.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 17:27

Yeah. Here's here's a from Paul. By the way, as I bring this comment up, he did already say that he does not see his name in that yet. He says, If you want to find out how badly you suck at togging, fish a couple trips next to Frank. Yeah, you're you're just the quiet guy just reeling in the big fish.

Frank Mihalic: 17:46

No, man, I'll tell you what, Paul is an absolute class guy. I had such a great trip with Paul one day, and I gotta say, one day, talk about being a gentleman. One day I went to the AC boat show and I go in there and something happens, and I had a park somewhere, and I needed $20 to park. And I got in there and I had my Visa card. I had like a $10 bill, and I saw Paul, and Paul gave me $20 so I could get my car out of the park. And right, it took me like a year and a half to pay him back that $20. I couldn't wait to see him so I could pay him back that 20 bucks. But what a, you know, what a gentleman. It was I had a great day fishing next to Paul one day. We had a great time. And if I'm not mistaken, one of Paul's buddies caught uh, I think he caught an 18-pounder on the jig that day. We were fishing reef site 11 on fever. Yeah, it was thanks, Paul. I appreciate that, but I don't always win.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 18:39

I I still don't have my 10-pounder, so I'm I'm hoping, you know, and I'm hoping to get some more to trips in actually starting in January. I gotta do the the one on the osprey, and then I think I'm gonna just wait until the colder weather in January, which is really when I like to do my togging. The colder the better for me. But let's dive into a couple of things here. So as far as the tactics, you were up in the Rhode Island area. Are you seeing differences? Is there anything that you caught from up there that you would apply down here that that isn't common or isn't what we typically talk about?

Frank Mihalic: 19:15

We earlier in the season, when we were up there in October, we were fishing some really shallow water, and I really, really got good with the jig. Like I got a lot better. That was last year. So this year, when I went up there, I made it, I made another jig rod with Century. It's a seven and a half foot full carbon weapon, and I love that thing for fishing the jig. So when I came down here this year in the spring, in the springtime, there was an awesome bite at Wildwood Reef for about the whole month of April. We had great fish at Wildwood Reef, and I caught a 13-pounder on the jig on Wildwood Reef. So I'm doing okay on the jig now, but that's not as big as I have on the rig. But I, you know, I have to do something at least respectful. I mean.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 19:58

Yeah. So when you say shallow water, what are you what what depths are you typically talking about?

Frank Mihalic: 20:04

Uh like less than less than 70 feet.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 20:07

Okay. So less than 70 is where you would consider a jig.

Frank Mihalic: 20:11

I would consider a jig anywhere. If the if the current is right, if the if the tide is right, if the conditions are right, if what I'm fishing is right. If I'm fishing, you know, concrete rubble, low rubble, where again, fishing in fishing up there, the fish, it's not a straight, you're jig straight up and down, but when you hook the fish and the fish runs out, the fish rubs on rocks. And it's not the rocks that cut you off up in Rhode Island. It's these real sharp barnacles that grow on the rocks that you come up. And I mean, up there I'm fishing, I'm fishing 20-pound line with an 80-pound lead. It's like eight feet long and it's coming up shredded. So it's like, you know, don't again, if the guy I talked to a friend of mine and he was going up there a couple days ago, and he's like, Oh, yeah, I fit, I fish 20 on a liter. I'm like, not up there, you know. Oh, yeah, I do. I'm like, dude, you better bring your 60 and your 80, because if you fish 20, you're gonna cry a lot. Yeah, exactly. Just doesn't work up there. Where down here, we have, you know, down out of Cape May, we have mostly soft growth on our on our rocks and on our wrecks. You know, we don't have so much tackle shredding barnacles like they do up there.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 21:23

Yeah, yeah. I mean, if if you're gonna get snagged and you're gonna lose it in the structure here, it's because it went into the structure. It's not, you know, it's it's you're screwed either way. But yeah, up there the barnacles. It it's it's not because of the size of the fish that you're going to up on those leader sizes. It's because you're you're gonna be grinding against that with every fish that you have.

Frank Mihalic: 21:44

Well, I when I had that fish on Wildwood Reef, man, I was fishing uh I'm fishing a Saltiga um a SaltX 4,000 reel. Yeah, this one here. It's a 4,000. It's a little bigger than usual. It's got a big handle on it. What did I have? I had 50-pound leader. That that fish didn't take a click of drag. Didn't take a click. I had that drag set on murder. Absolute. We were we were in the hallway. I got a new reel and I'm messing around. Something with um an accurate reel. They have this new reel that I've been trying to use. It's called a uh it's called an ascender. It's a 300. It's a really sweet little accurate reel. It's a really nice blackfish reel. And we were working on this, and I was in the hallway with Brian Mignon, and we were we were trying to check out the drag and we were pulling on it and pulling on it. He's like, Yeah, that's that's all I got. I'm like, no, Brian, go more. He goes, No, no, I can't. I'm like, Brian, use two hands, put one hand on the handle and one hand on the star and crank that thing. And he's like, he's like, oh, he goes, I didn't know you could do that. I said, well, that's how you get to murder, you know. Yeah, but we were talking because Brian's an excellent, excellent fisherman. And he fishes OSHIA jiggers a lot. And he tells me to, you know, every now and then he'll get a fish and he can't stop it, and the fish gets back into the wreck. And that's one of that's one of those things like how to really crank on that star drag. That unless you have a lot of experience fishing those reels, it just doesn't really click. And all of a sudden, me and Brian in a hallway in a hotel in Rhode Island, and all of a sudden, ding, okay, now I know how to crank on the drag.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 23:24

You better have the right rod if you're doing that though.

Frank Mihalic: 23:27

Absolutely. Just hang on, brother. Hang on.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 23:30

I've seen the tuna guys and the shark guys do that.

unknown: 23:33

Yeah.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 23:33

When they have they have the telephone pole, so they know that the rod's not going to snap, but they need something to slow that fish. And uh it's typically the shark and the tuna. Yeah.

Frank Mihalic: 23:43

I've hooked those fish where I get the fish and I get the fish coming up and it starts dogging, and I'll lower the rod, I'll lower the rod, and I'll actually like bow the rod to the fish. Sometimes where I have the rod almost straight up and down.

Speaker: 23:54

Yeah.

Frank Mihalic: 23:55

And he's still not taking a. I mean, I've caught 18-pound fish that don't take a click of drag.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 23:59

Yeah.

Frank Mihalic: 24:00

If he does, if he does get drag on that first run, you're shot. Now I'll get the fish up 20 or 30 more feet, and then I'll drop a couple clicks off the drag.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 24:10

Right, right. Yeah, I I have the hat. I I gotta improve my uh my tackle. I I've had a couple of fish that I've had them well clear, well clear of the bottom, and they've they've dogged it straight back in, and I couldn't stop them, you know, to the point where I'm thumbing the thing and burning my thumb to trying to stop them. I was like, I'm max drag at 23 pounds, and this, you know, this goes straight down.

Frank Mihalic: 24:38

I guarantee you, if you have that reel at 23 pounds, that fish is not taking a click. Let me show you how to set your drag.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 24:45

Well, so this isn't a star drag. This one is this is one of those the little dial on the side. I was like, this sucks. Lever drag? Yeah. No, it wasn't even a lever. It wasn't even a lever. It's it's like a little dial that you just turn with your fingers. I was like, this is stupid. This is absolutely stupid.

Frank Mihalic: 25:03

You know what else, Richard?

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 25:04

I don't use that. I don't use that reel anymore, by the way.

Frank Mihalic: 25:07

The way I'm fishing, it's it's like a whole system. It's like the Ascender reel on the Pro Tiger rod. It has 65 pound braid, it has an 80-pound top shot and 80-pound liter to my rig. I have another one that has 50-pound braid, it has 60-pound top shot and 60-pound liter to my rig. So if we're trophy hunting, if we're going to a really nasty spot, I'll use the 80. If we're fishing more, if if we're, you know, fishing 100 foot of water or just regular reef sites and stuff, I'll use the 50-pound braid with the 60. Does that make sense?

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 25:43

It does. Yeah, it definitely does. And I I think, well, let me ask you this. What when you're do you notice any difference in the amount of weight that you need to use between those two?

Frank Mihalic: 25:55

I usually fish at 10. A 10. I usually fish at 10. If for some reason, if I'm fishing like reef site 11, if I'm in the mouth of Delaware Bay, if it's a moon tide, it might, you know, if the wind is with the tide, I might feel that 10 walking just a little, little bit with the 65. But then again, at Reef Site 11, at Reef Site 11, I'm probably using my 50-pound outfit. I don't use my 65-pound outfit till if we start running offshore, you know, if we get it, that's the thing. If we get a day where all of a sudden it's a bluebird day, you know, wind's less than 10 knots, it's going to be two feet, two, three footers. The captain will say, Hey, do you want to you want to make an offshore run? We'll put in some extra money. We get to the boat an hour early, and you know, and we have a special day at hitting some stuff that not a lot of people hit.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 26:47

Right. So you pull out the big stuffs because you you get that shot. You're not going to, I mean, it may only end up being only a 10-pounder. But but you got more opportunity at this larger, so you don't want to miss it.

Frank Mihalic: 27:00

And again, sometimes we're fishing, you know, sometimes we're fishing something out there that's really nasty. Sometimes it's not. It's just a matter of, you know, the way my tackle is set up. It's a it's the whole system. Like the 65-pound braid goes with the 80-pound mono and the 80-pound top shot because I can just lock it down and hang on. And I can basically do the exact same thing with the 50. The 50-pound braid and the 60-pound top shot and the 60-pound leader, I can do the same thing. I can just hold right on it and not give them a not give them a bit. And I'm gonna hold it. Yeah.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 27:35

Let me ask you this. It's a shift. And and one of the reasons I was asking about the weight is I don't know if this is true. I don't know if you know if it's a a fact or not, but I'd like your opinion on this. I've been told by a couple of people, and and for the record, I don't think this is correct. I could be wrong. I've heard from a couple of people for jig fishing that you should never go over two ounces because a tog will pick it up and feel the weight and drop it. Have you noticed anything like that when you're fishing the jig?

Frank Mihalic: 28:07

No. I know guy, I mean, I know plenty of guys that use three. I mean, I know guys that are hardcore, hardcore jig fishermen. They always fish a jig and they'll fish up to three. Me, I'm not that hard into it. Where if I'm if I'm fishing more than two, it'll start to get a little uncomfortable with me where I feel like I'm undergunned. So I'll put it away. But Richie, honestly, I mean, I'm fishing a 10-ounce weight. I feel a black fish come by and pick up my crab and swim away with it. And I feel my 10-ounce sinker dragging across the bottom like I'm drifting for flounder.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 28:41

So, so that's that was the point that I brought up. They're like, oh, they'll drop it right away. I'm like, I don't think so, because I I typically don't fish. Look, I'm not going where you're going, so I'm not fishing 10-ounce weights, but I am fishing, you know, fives and sixes. And I've caught you know under 10 pounders that are picking it up and running with it. So I I it didn't quite make sense to me, but you never know. And that's why I ask, because you may say, yeah, actually, it doesn't make any sense, but I can't I can't keep one buttoned up at a certain weight.

Frank Mihalic: 29:12

So I so when we're trying to blackfish, right? One of the most important skills is fishing a slack line, right? Yeah. So if I'm trying to fish a slack line with a 10, and I can just sit there and I can just loosen up my line and I can just put my tip up in the air, I can just sit there and totally relax. And I feel if I'm getting a bite, I feel it. And I have a 10 on the bottom. If you're trying to do that with a six, and as the boat's going up and down, don't you think maybe my 10 is a little more anchored on the bottom than your six is?

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 29:41

Yeah, I I work hard to keep that thing anchored. You know, because you gotta keep because any little if you're off by any little bit, you're now you're now bouncing. And that is a pain in the ass. And the and every time it bounces, I just feel I don't know. If this is going to mess it up, but I feel like I just screwed myself for the next five minutes.

Frank Mihalic: 30:04

You could, you could do that. Especially if you have a guy, you know, some guys just fish too tight, man. Some guys fish too tight. And you'll see him over there, and he's, you know, and he's okay. That guy that fish is too tight, he'll do okay on a calm day. But on a rough day, he's over there bouncing and bouncing and bouncing. And I only want one, I just want one bite. I just want one good chance at that fish all day. And if he if we're sitting there on rocks or if we're on a metal wreck and he's bouncing and bouncing and bouncing, I'll tell him once. I'll tell him once. If I have to tell him more than once, man, I'm just he's just not my kind of guy. You know, he's just gotta go fish with, you know, just knock on invite him on my trips anymore. But that's what I mean. The guys that I have on my trips, these are these are these are good guys, you know what I mean?

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 30:51

Yeah, I mean, I uh I learned a lot. Just I I and I told you before we went out that day, and that wasn't even a great talk day. Um, it was very early in the season. It was an amazing strike bass day, which was I I had a load of fun watching you just the smile on your face when you were tossing your leg and the way that everyone coordinated, it was like a dance across that deck. You know, people are casting over and just shifting to this other spot and then fishing down the thing. It was like this little conveyor. I think Kwa was there.

Frank Mihalic: 31:22

There were a bunch of were we on Fishmonger that day?

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 31:25

Yeah, we were on the manger that day.

Frank Mihalic: 31:27

And we were straight for fishing.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 31:29

So we were we started for TOG and it was really slow. And we were gonna move out, and Jerry turned around and looked at you and said and pointed to the bunker, which is about a mile inshore from where we were, mile or two. And we and everyone just kind of looked at him, looked at you, and you said, Let's go. And we ran in, and that was it was crazy. We did a few times that day. Caught some caught some fog.

Frank Mihalic: 31:55

That day I was I was testing a weapon, a weapon magnum taper rod. Yeah, it was 710. Man, I beat the hell out of bass. My whole mission that day, I was just trying, I was trying to catch twice as many fish as everybody else. So as you notice, when the boat would stop, I was fishing next to the house, so I could cast forward while the boat was still moving. I could cast forward, hook a fish, get it off, and get another cast before anybody else had their first fish in. So that my whole thing with trying that rod that day is I was just really trying to just put an ultimate beat down on the fish and get them in as fast as I could. But also because I was fishing in the front of a line, I had to get that fish in because if I was messing around and that fish got in the back where the other four guys were on the side, I was gonna screw them all up.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 32:47

Yeah, I was fishing next to you for quite a bit, and you were always casting first, and I was always waiting. I was like, damn it, damn it, let's go. Yeah, and and that actually on that trip, the first time that we pulled up to the straight bass, the mates just started tossing rods around, and I and I was like, It's not my rod. And he's like, just fish it. I was like, Yes, sir. Yeah, and I toss it out, and and next to me, I hear Qual. He's like, So how do you like that rod? I'm like, is this your rod? And he's like, Yeah. He's like, No, no, catch a couple of fish on it. Yeah, it was the weapon junior, and he's like, Tell me how you like it. I was like, It's awesome. I feel like I'm gonna break it. He's like, You're not gonna break it. He's like, slam it. And I slammed a couple. I was like, I still feel like I need to give this back to you. So we switched back.

Frank Mihalic: 33:32

See, I I'm really all about, I mean, I have light rods and I'm real good at light tackle, but I'm all about using the the right tackle for the for the job, you know what I mean. I want to use a rod that I can absolutely beat the hell out of that fish. I mean, and that's just that's just kind of how I'm looking at it. You know what I mean? If I I can always go lighter if I want to, but I want to be able to subdue that fish quickly.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 33:57

Right. Well, and there's something to be said, first of all, for the health of the fish. You know, light tackle is not good. I mean, Jeremy Wade, of all people, whether you like him or not, his philosophy is you always you always are geared up for the maximum size fish that you expect to catch that day, which is why he always has those big casting rods. No matter what he's fishing for. He's like, Yeah, but there's 200-pound fish here. I don't want to have a 200-pound fish on for an hour because it'll kill it. So, you know, and and I know you you return a lot of talk, the vast majority of them you're returning. So I I think that's a a big thing. I used to fish as light as possible. I mean, I used to go shark fishing with a trout rod. Now smaller shark, but literally a freshwater trout rod to see, you know, and I and I was able with the the split handle that I put on it, I was able to put on a 3,000-size reel. So I was able to do it, but God, that was terrible. Like I never should have done that because it was killing the fish.

Frank Mihalic: 34:55

Yeah, but sometimes you know, you grow as an angler too, man. You know what I mean? You change.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 35:01

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it it I when I did that, the the one day I did it, my grandfather, it's way back in the day. My grandfather's next to me. He turns around, he was no nonsense with fishing. I mean, you would have gotten along really well with it. And he's looking at me, he's like, What the hell are you doing? It's just me and him. And I got this little ugly stick that I had retied and everything. And we're fishing for bluefish and flounder out in the Delaware Bay back when it was a good fishery. Been there. Yeah, he's like, What the hell are you doing? I was like, Oh, I just want to see if I can break this rod. He's like, You can break it. I was like, Well, I'm not, I'm not gonna try to. And he's every fish I'm catching, he's like, he's he's telling me that it's ridiculous. Use a real rod, do it the right way. And finally, this this is I got bit by a shark. All right, my own fault. I brought it in the boat and I grabbed, I grabbed at the bucktail and it got me on my finger. My grandfather was a doctor, so he's like, Did it get you? I was like, Yeah. So I held up my hand, he's like, All right, give me a rod, give me the shark. So he takes it off, throws a back end, and he's like, Go get the med kit. So I go up to the front of the boat, and when I come back, he's like, Now find a band-aid, and he's fishing with my rod. I was like, I was like, come on, man. And he fished with that for the rest of the day. Yeah, so it's like it it's a little part of every one of us, no matter what, that just enjoys that like tackle thing, but wouldn't have stood up to the tog, that's for sure.

Frank Mihalic: 36:25

Well, for me, like I said, Rich, it's all about the system. You know what I mean? Yeah, starting with the 10 ounce weight. I mean, if I'm in 50 foot of water, I'm still fishing a 10-ounce weight because I know what it feels like when I'm fishing a slack line. And when that fish, when that fish picks up that 10 ounce weight, like I said, it's rolling across the bottom like you're drifting for flu, you know, like you're fishing for fluke. It's like that fish doesn't feel that 10 ounce weight for nothing. And if he does, the size of fish I'm trying to catch, it doesn't bother him anyway, you know?

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 36:56

Yeah, yeah. So let's let's talk real quick about it. So your your whole setup, because you were definitely a system angler. You're you're like, as Paul had mentioned, or somebody had mentioned in there, you're like a technician when you're out there. Like you have it dialed the way that you want to have it dialed, and all the way down to how you hold the rod, how you set the hook. We don't need to go through all of that. I mean, let's save some stuff for the seminars, get people out to these these boat shows and everything to see you. But let's let's first of all, you're you're a century guy, so you're fishing century rods, and it's the pro toger. And you've already talked about the reels and the line. But what are what are you typically going to be starting out with as far as a rig?

Frank Mihalic: 37:38

Well, as far as I'm in my braid, I'm going to attach about a 20-foot length of mono. That's called a top shot. And I'll tie it with an FG knot. Okay, and an FG knot, I could not tie a perfect FG knot until I discovered these tools. These are these are called line pullers, and they're from a company called 30, let's see, 30 fathoms. There you go. 30, 30 fathoms. They're not pullers, and these are rubber and they have a hole in them for a hook. So when I tie an FG, I can tie put the braid around this and the mono around this, and I can seat that FG perfectly. So I can tie a hell of an FG now, which is good, so I'm not constantly cutting my skin. I'll tie about a 20, 25-foot top shot. I'll double up the, so that's like a giant rubber band, okay? Using 65, 50-pound braiders, no stretch. The lockdown drag. I need some forgiveness. So this mono is like a little bit of a rubber band. The bottom couple feet, I'll double it up. I'll hang a sinker in the bottom. And then I'll tie in a V-rig. And here's a V-rig. These are two owner owner octopus five-odd hooks snelled on. Comes up about four inches. There's a triple surgeon's loop. And here's the end of the, this is the rest of the double line. Where this is basically a 30, a 30, 30-inch length of 80 with uh two hooks nailed on. And then I put them in a, I put them in an eye and I come up here about three inches, and I just with the double line, I just in a loop, I go one, two, three times, I move it and I pull it tight, and that's how it sits. It's very similar to like the way you would fish a snafu, but it's a lot quicker to quicker to tie than a snafu is. Right. I'm gonna leave this with you. Do not use a slider rig. Do not use a slider rig because you're gonna in a slider rig, you have, and a lot of guys fish slider rigs. A lot of guys do, but I'm in my personal experience, and I've lost two fish with this, when you have a snelled hook here and you have a sliding hook just resting down here. If you hook a fish on that sliding hook and it's jammed against this, I've had two times where I've lost big fish to the sliding hook popping the leader right there. So I might be a little stupid. Okay, the first time wasn't enough. I had to experience this two times. Now I'm done with the slider. I won't use a slider anymore.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 40:06

All right. So let me ask you this. So, with that with that V setup, are you using that on two different baits or one bait hooked on both sides?

Frank Mihalic: 40:13

One, one, what, one, one white crab. If I get a white crab about three or four inches long, and I'll I'll cut the claw and like two flippers on each side. So I just leave like the back two legs on each side, and I'll put I'll put the hook in one side to put the hook in the other side. I'll drop it on the ground and step on it a couple times and away she goes.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 40:34

Okay. All right.

Frank Mihalic: 40:36

Fish it like that as long as there's not a whole lot of current. If there's a lot of current, I'll take all the legs off.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 40:41

Okay. Now, are you are you fishing any other types of setups? Yeah, like so there's everybody says like different, you know, instead of the V, or is that typically where you're starting?

Frank Mihalic: 40:51

If if I if there's not a whole lot of current, that's how I'm fishing. I really prefer to fish uh a single whole white crab. If sometimes if there's really, really big soup crabs, I might put those two hooks in a half of a crab. I'll just take a half of a giant soup crab, cut all the legs off, cut the shell off, and put those two hooks in a half a crab. But I mean the half of this crab is like big, you know, it's like a fistful of meat. All right, I'm gonna give up something here, okay? If you're fishing a place, if you're fishing a place where there's a whole lot of current, if there's just a lot of current, and if you're pulling up your whole crab and you notice the crab, like the leader's really twisted, if you feel on the bottom where it feels like your bait is kind of helicoptering that it's not sitting correctly, that's when I'll go with like a 16-inch leader with a single hook, like a single six-off hook with a single small crab, like a little a little two-inch white crab, and I'll cut the legs off of one side and I'll put the hook in the side with no legs, and the other half hanging away has the legs hanging off of it. If fish is really good in the current, if there's a lot of current that day, and and you can get a really nice presentation that way, and I've caught some really big fish like that.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 42:10

It makes sense. I mean, it makes it more water or hydrodynamic, right? I almost said water dynamic, but hydrodynamic. So it's coming over the smooth side in the hook and then coming out over the legs.

Frank Mihalic: 42:21

A little movement is good, but I don't want any, I don't want any spin. You know, I want it to sit there and look nice. Because I mean, especially, you know, if we're out of reef site 11 and the wind's with the tide and the current screaming, you gotta you gotta do something a little different. You know, maybe if if the fish aren't biting, maybe you just try to give them a couple small pieces, something easy for them to eat, you know, a nice little like a little ice cube piece of bait, and you know, just give them something easy to eat to get them going.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 42:52

So, okay, so we're we're not using slider rigs anymore. Yeah, we're using Belmar, V Belmar rigs, and and but one thing I do want to really stress right now, because I have run into this and on TOG, actually, even though that's not like a species that I consider myself to be the you know trophy hunter at, but I've I've run into it on fish like I mean, certainly tuna and shark, even bluefish. The hooks. So you mentioned the owner octopus hooks. Can we just spend two minutes stressing the importance of the getting the right hook? Because to me, that is the biggest heartbreak cause that people run into every freaking year. And the cutting point, yeah, the cutting point. People are going out with eagle calls. What's your thought on that?

Frank Mihalic: 43:46

Just don't complain when you lose your fish. Now, you know what else? Now, here's another thing that this is kind of experimental at this point. But look at this Soltex hook, okay? And this says that it's a two-od, it's really more like a five-odd, but look at the size. It almost looks like a barbarian hook, the way it has that funky bend. It's a really heavy wire hook, and it really the way, the way that bend goes in the crab and out of the leg, this is really a cool hook. This thing's been doing really, really well. They're not quite available yet, but they will be, and they're it's a really good option. But you know, if you're spending all that money to go out and go todd fishing, use this. Because if you're using it, if you're you, you know, and it's funny because I I'll get into a conversation with a guy, he messages me, and we start going back and forth, and oh, what are you using? And I show him what I'm using. And then he then he'll send me a picture of a snafu tied with like these red beak hooks, and I'm like, all right, good luck. Good luck. I'm sorry, but you know, I don't I mean, I'm not going to stare and tell him like I wouldn't fish that, but it's I don't want to make people feel bad. If that's all he wants to fish, is it's okay.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 44:52

Yeah, I I I think uh an important point though is I think as fishermen, generally speaking, we tend to be tempted to spend our money on sometimes the wrong things. You know, everybody wants a great reel for small fish, you know, like fluke. You don't need a great reel to catch fluke. I don't care if you catch a you know a 14-pounder, you can still get it on nearly any reel that that's out there, whether it's a $30 reel or a $200. But people are going out and they're fishing their you know, $300 reels that are just set up for fluke.

Frank Mihalic: 45:26

Well, remember, Rich, the hook, the hook is at the end of the leader, it's at the end of the top shot, it's at the end of the braid, it's at the end of the reel with the lockdown drag. So not much, there's not much forgiveness there.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 45:40

Exactly. And and I think that you know that's where you want to spend your money. And it's not like it's a lot of money. You want to spend your money on the rod, you want to spend your money on the the hooks, the terminal tackle. And you know, I I just don't I don't understand the the thought that I'm gonna go out there with this great setup that I spent all this time and effort to put together, whether it's the best or not, it's what I think is the best for me. I got the the the rod that's gonna work, I got the reel that's gonna work, and now I got these two dollar hooks. And the and and when you're talking about a tog, they're gonna bend the two dollar hooks.

Frank Mihalic: 46:14

Well, you know, Jenkin World makes these, they have these hooks now that are called Z Blade that that a lot of the charter captains use. They're very, very good hooks. I haven't seen one of them them bend. So there are some better hooks coming out in the market that are very good. But for me, like what the shape of, you know, the shape of that hook, the very thick wire shank, the short bend, the cutting point, you know, the size of the wire with with the short shank and and then and the large bend, it's all it's all again, it's all part of the system. To have a thinner wire or to have this wire with a longer shank, well, that's what's gonna make it bend, because now the leverage point is too far away.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 47:02

Yeah, I I'm I'm interested to see how those tsunami or the the saltex do, the tsunami saltex. Because uh, it is a longer, even though the the the shank isn't long, it is a much more surface area or length to that hook with that bend.

Frank Mihalic: 47:18

I started you know, using them about I started using them about a year ago.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 47:23

Yeah.

Frank Mihalic: 47:24

But let me see if I can get it. Where is it?

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 47:28

It's tough because we have the smaller viewer here. There you go.

Frank Mihalic: 47:32

See the bend uh it's a kind of a funky bend on that hook. But it's a it's a really heavy wire, and man, they're strong. They're really strong. I've caught some pretty big fish on them, and they haven't. I can tell how strong a hook is if I get it snagged in the bottom and and I'm pulling and I'm breaking it out. If I you know, if I straighten the hook out, or if I break the point off of the hook, or if I can get the hook back and maybe the hook, the tip's just dull, but the hook's still intact. That's kind of what I'm hoping for.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 48:03

Yeah, yeah. It's like some of the jigs that I've used. One of the selling points was, well, it'll bend, but it'll go back to its original shape and still be strong and like I'd rather have to resharpen. Who told you that lie? I've had a lot of people tell me that. But once you bend, once you bend it, it's not it's not it's never the same. No, you'd rather have to resharpen a hook that didn't bend.

Frank Mihalic: 48:27

And jig hooks are tough, man. I mean, the guys that fish up in Rhode Island in that structure, they're fishing, there's some guys that are making like four X hooks in their jigs now. You know, I mean they're they're very good, they're very good hooks. But I mean, at the end of the day, you know what? Dante MagicTales was probably the first guy I saw that ever made a top jig. They were really good. He's been making them better, he's got better and better hooks. A lot of guys make really good jigs now.

Speaker: 48:55

Yeah.

Frank Mihalic: 48:55

But you know, it's a usually with the jig, you're fishing a much lighter rod. So you don't have that, you don't have that total, that total lockup like you have with a real heavy conventional outfit. Right. Right. You know, when I swing the pro toger, I get that thing up in the air, I get some cranks on that fish. By the time he by the time he knows what's in trouble and the and the rod butt's in my hip and my hand's on the foregrip and that rod's up and it's quirked over, I got him. All I gotta do is hold on, man. I got him probably 20 feet off the wreck. I all I gotta do is hold him. He's gonna start dogging, and after he's done dogging, he's gonna he's gonna turn, and I'm gonna get a couple cranks on him, and and it's you know, it'll be over in a couple minutes.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 49:39

Yeah, eventually it'll be done, and and you're gonna have a nice release or a nice dinner. Yeah. Let me let me ask you this. We're getting close to our our time here, but one of the most common questions is is about baits. So if you have your choice of baits, let's talk the next, you know, maybe they change as as the season goes on. What's your first drop going to be if you have your choice of baits right now in the fall? White crab. White, it's what's it every time?

Frank Mihalic: 50:09

If I'm inshore, if I'm fishing inshore, green crabs are green crabs are fine too. If I'm fishing out, you know, if I'm fishing more than five miles offshore, I really want to use a white crab. Hermit crabs, I really hate them because while they will make the fish bite, when you get the bite on a hermit crab, it's like you're you're fishing and and you get you feel tick and it's all done. That's it. That's your bite, and your hermit crab's gone and you're done. I'll even fish spider crabs and catch fish. No problem. I'll catch fish on spider crabs, no problem.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 50:41

Really?

Frank Mihalic: 50:42

Yeah.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 50:43

So something actually eats spider crabs. Absolutely. Disgusting, absolutely disgusting crab there is. So it's funny. Okay, so there's a little tick on the hermit crab. So it seems like Kwa would be a hermit crab fisherman because it's similar to the sheep's head, where you get there's that little that little tick, and then you can set that hook. I'll tell you what that I what I hate about the hermit crabs, though, is when you're out on a charter boat like the osprey or Jamaica or one of those, and one person brings them and they're smacking those things with a hammer all day. That is the that is the most annoying thing ever in the history of the world. I even know when they prepare them.

Frank Mihalic: 51:23

I even hate it when uh we're out there at Reef Site 11. Some guys on the Thelma Dale out of Delaware have a cooler full of hermit crabs. I hear them over there smacking them hermit crabs all of them like we can get the hell away from me. But some guys in the plumbing industry, they use this tool, it's called a pro press, where instead of soldering copper pipes nowadays, they use this thing. It's like a mil, it's like a rigid tool, and it has these jaws, and you hit the button and it goes, yeah. Well, guys use a pro press and they use it to crush their hermit crab shells. So that's awesome. It's pretty, it's pretty crazy. I still hate hermit crabs.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 51:59

Still, but but that would be so much better. It's almost like I should just buy one and just let people use it. They're just it's aggravating.

Frank Mihalic: 52:06

The hermit crab, it's it's just like a little ball of mush, man. I mean, I'd I'd rather I'd rather fish clam. I mean, I'd rather clam stays on the hook better than a hermit crab does, but yeah, they're it's they're just it's the the the bite is so different. Where when you're fishing white crabs, they're gonna come over. You know, if you're fishing a whole white crab, you're gonna have enough bait to get, you know, you get you know, scratch, scratch, then you get bam, bam, bam. Right. Like you got you have enough bait for three or four good takedowns. You then all of a sudden you fish with the hermit crab and you get tick, it's all done. Now you're done. All done. Yeah, and you ain't catching if you're not on the bottom. And it's all done. You by the time you get the tick, you're like, here you are zoned into the scratch bite, scratch bite, and then you're getting walloped with the white crabs, and now you put on the hermit crab and you gotta tick, you're all done. It's like you get these things away from me.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 53:01

Yeah, I I personally have difficulty switching between styles like that. You know, for me actually a big change every every year is going from fluke to tog because it's such a different bite and a different approach to it that I I find that it takes me, it takes me a few fish to to make that switch. And then and then I'm on, right? Then I'm on, but but if I I can't fish like I wouldn't be able to fish fluke in the morning and then fish effectively for tog in the afternoon, or vice versa, because it it just it's like a knuckleballer. Yeah, like I'm that hitter that can't hit a fastball after a knuckleball comes by, I'm done.

Frank Mihalic: 53:40

Well, you know, those white crabs, they are the natural bait that's out there that white crabs aren't they're not swimmers, they're crawlers. And usually when we're on our way in from a from wherever, wherever we're fishing, usually when we're on our way in on fishing fever, we stop and we we haul our trap so we have crabs for the next day. So when we're out there in you know, 50, 60 foot of water and we're hauling these traps and they're loaded with these beautiful white crabs. Why would I not use these beautiful white crabs if that's what's out there, if that's the natural bait on the bottom, you know, them and spider crabs are out there too. That it's it just seems like, you know, why would I want to be obstinate? And you know, and this is a thing too. You'll get some guy who's like, oh, we were killing them on green crabs in the spring. Oh, they love these green crabs, and you know, I mean, man, it's like, you know, just because they love green crabs in the spring when you're fishing in 10 foot of water, the green crabs live insure. You know, they the green crabs don't really live out in a hundred foot of water, they live more in the estuaries, right? So people get stuck in their ways, man. They get something stuck in their head, and you know.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 54:48

I I think people overthink fishing way too often, right? It's it's I think it and I think look, I think the tackle companies do a lot to kind of foster that. Like you have to have this bait, you have to have this soft plastic, you have to everybody the no live bait needed, it's like it's literally the same as 90 uh 90% of the other ones. Like, no, I don't have an L N L V N. I do have the identical soft plastic from three other manufacturers, and it's not a knock against them as a company, it's just there's I I think you're overthinking it.

Frank Mihalic: 55:23

Yeah. Well, you know, Richie, one day I was fishing with my buddy Mark one day. We were out, and I forget what boat we were on. I think we were on, I think we were with Tom. I think we were on fever. And and Mark brought a friend of his who shall remain nameless, but he's a guy that never fishes with us again. And he's a really good fisherman, but he just he was a little bit of a nudge, you know what I mean? And I'm fishing portside next to the house. He's fishing portside in the back corner, and then Mark's in the middle and Sully, and there's a couple other guys. And this guy, he was he was kind of really good, and Mark's a sweetheart. I mean, Mark is a nice guy, man. And this guy, he's giving Mark a bit of a hard time, and he's riding him, and he starts riding on him about, you know, you don't need the white crabs, you're catching a good on green, and he's catching a couple fish on green crabs, and he's okay. And then he starts giving Mark a lot of hell because Mark is Mark's using a red sinker because one of the things that I learned a long time ago from my friend Joe Zagorski is Joe Zagorski painted his sinkers red. And one of the things that I realized is if I paint my sinkers or I use red plastic dip on them, they're not they're no longer shiny. Like a brand new 10-ounce sinker is shiny, you know? So if I paint it with red plastic dip, it's not shiny. So if I drop it to the bottom, if there's dogfish around and a dogfish sees a shiny sinker going to the bottom, he's going to come over and eat your crab. Or if you do get a blackfish bite and you miss it and you swing and the sinker comes up, the dogfish sees it, the next bite you get is a dogfish. So that's why we use these red sinkers. So this guy starts giving Mark Hell first about the crabs, and then he starts giving Mark Hell about the red sinkers, and I'm up there and I'm not saying nothing. And sure enough, as luck would have it, he's getting a couple fish for a couple hours, and then luck turned. And he's using his shiny sinkers, and he started getting dog fished up for about the next three hours. In the next three hours, I'm catching, I'm catching fish between like five and eight pounds, and I'm unhooking them and I'm throwing them on the deck, and I'm hitting them in the back of his boots.

Speaker: 57:26

Yeah.

Frank Mihalic: 57:26

So by the end of the day, he's like, he's gotten, you know, fish after fish after fish. Finally, on the way in, he's like, hey, you did you did pretty good today? I'm like, I did okay. He goes, so let me ask you, what is it about the red sinker? And I looked at him and I was like, and and I was a gentleman and I told him, but uh, you know, Karma kind of got on my figure. He kind of did himself in.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 57:47

Yeah, it sounds like it. I don't have any red sinkers.

Frank Mihalic: 57:51

Well, if you go with me, I'll let you use one.

unknown: 57:54

Yeah.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 57:55

Yeah, full disclosure, I don't have any.

Frank Mihalic: 57:57

But you'll have to give it back to me at the end of the day because it's a secret.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 58:00

Yeah, yeah. It's a secret that thousands of people are going to listen to in the next two weeks.

Frank Mihalic: 58:05

Little things, man. You know what? It's little things. If it gives you a sense of confidence, if it helps me be more patient fishing that bait, uh the I just need to I just need to get it on the bottom and let it sit there until I get the right bite.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 58:20

Yeah, no, I I agree. Confidence is, you know, common theme on this channel. Confidence is probably the number one indicator of success or failure. And you know, that's why you know people say one of the examples I use is the twitch twitch pause retrieve when fishing for certain species. It's the most common retrieve. Twitch, twitch pause. It's not because it's better, it's because that's what you're comfortable doing, and you you fish it more confidently because the guy next to you that's comfortable with a single twitch is going to catch the same number of fish as you, as long as you're both fishing what you're confident with. So I definitely believe in that. But hey, Frank, wanted to thank you for coming on. I know that people are watching the Eagles now at the same time and hopefully listening to us. Go birds. Is there anything you yeah, go birds? Is there anything you want to leave everybody with before we go?

Frank Mihalic: 59:12

No, man. Just, you know, one thing I really tried to do this year, Rich, in the springtime, I let all the females go. I let everything over seven, everything over seven pounds on my charter, we try to let go if it'll go. And and all the females we let go. And this year I started doing it in the spring and the fall, where the only fish we keep are males and they're like under seven pounds. So whatever I can do to help release the release the fish nice and healthy, you know, keeping them in the live well, let them let them um acclimate to the pressure and try to let them go at the end of the day so that they can go back and live and be good breeding stock. And um just try to, you know, have fun catching them, but try to let them go and take good care of them.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 59:56

Yeah, I agree with that. Let them go if you can. Um You know, with that said, if you want to keep them.

Frank Mihalic: 1:00:02

Absolutely. It's your fish, man. If it's illegal fish, keep it. I am never gonna be I I am never gonna begrudge anybody from keeping illegal fish. It's their fish, man. I don't I don't have no horse in that race. That's just just a little thing that I I try to do. In reality, I love to bring home black fish and cook it that night or the next night, but if I put it in the freezer, I'm better off just giving it away because I'm not gonna eat it if it comes out of the freezer.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 1:00:28

Yeah, I agree. That that's how I am. I I have a uh vacuum sealer that uh we got what four years ago. I haven't even unwrapped it yet because it's it's always it just goes into the fridge and then directly under the grill.

Frank Mihalic: 1:00:43

Yeah, man. It's like Sunday gravy. I'll have meatballs like one more time during the week, but I'm not eating them no more after that.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 1:00:48

Yep, yep. I hear you.

Frank Mihalic: 1:00:51

Rebrun time.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 1:00:53

Yep, yep. Thanks for coming on. I really appreciate it. Uh, everybody, we'll be back next week. We're gonna announce the guests later in the week. We're still waiting for a confirmation. Uh, but man, I'm looking forward to running into the talk following again. You you had a great trip, so that that kind of got me all charged up. I actually have all my top gear ready for our December 7th trip.

Frank Mihalic: 1:01:14

So um Well, I hope we get out there on one of them together, Rich.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 1:01:18

Yeah, well, we'll make it happen. At some point when you're not out on a on a uh charter, let me know and we'll jump on together.

Frank Mihalic: 1:01:25

If I scream, I'll let you know.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 1:01:27

I appreciate that. I appreciate that. Everyone, thanks for tuning in. We'll be back next week. Uh, cold weather is here, which is great for the kickoff to the opening or the expansion of the tox season in New Jersey. All of you guys up north, you're just hammering them already. So keep hammering, keep sharing those picks so that we can all live vicariously through you until we hit the water. And until next week, everyone get out there, get on the water, get some tight lines.