EP 44: Multi-species with River Queen Capt. Kayla Haile

Captain Kayla Hale shares multi-species fishing strategies for the northern Chesapeake, from striped bass tactics to smallmouth techniques. She reveals exciting news about her custom Rockproof jet boat being built for her guide service.

• Fish below surface commotion for bigger striped bass
• Minnow plugs and glide baits produce quality stripers in the fall
• Striped bass migration patterns change from Chesapeake Bay to New Jersey beaches
• Blue catfish pose serious threat to Chesapeake ecosystem unlike snakeheads
• Winter white and yellow perch fishing on ultralight tackle offers excellent cold-weather opportunity
• Brackish Babes all-female fishing team competing in Tiki Lee's rockfish tournament
• Finding joy in seeing others catch trophy fish is part of the guiding experience

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Chapters

• 0:00 Big Fish Hang Below the Surface
• 15:08 Introducing Captain Kayla Hale
• 22:42 New Custom Rockproof Jet Boat
• 32:55 Fall Striped Bass Tactics
• 38:30 Glide Baits for Trophy Fish
• 44:53 Finding Joy in Others' Catches
• 49:09 Brackish Babes Tournament Team
• 54:18 Blue Catfish Crisis in Chesapeake

Transcript

Capt. Kayla Haile: 0:00

Everybody gets all excited seeing fish breaking on the surface and you know they want to catch them, which is great. But yeah, a lot of your bigger fish just kind of hang out below all that.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 0:15

Hello and welcome back to the Fat Dad Fishing Show. I'm your host, rich Natoli, and we've got a show with a returning guest but not from the Fat Dad Fishing Show from when I was on Salt Strong doing the Salt Strong podcast. We have Captain Kayla Hale coming on. She's got some news to share as well and we're going to be talking multi-species. Now Kayla fishes the northern Chesapeake, so you're talking freshwater, brackish water, striped bass you know all of the things that you're going to want to get up at. Striped bass, I mean redfish. She's got a ton of stuff in her feed, so you should really check it out if you haven't already. I want to let you know, if this is your first time here checking out this show, either on the podcast or live stream, if you enjoy it, if you think it's halfway decent at all, it would be great. If you do a like, do some comments, share it out to people that you think might also want to check out the show, leave a review. That's really going to help.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 1:14

There are some guests not Kayla, but other guests that say well, before I agree to come on, how many people watch, how many people listen? I need to see your stats, so help us out with that? That would be great. I'm going to hit the sponsors real quick and then we're going to bring Kayla on. The first sponsor is Great Bay Outfitters on Radio Road in Tuckerton, new Jersey, my hometown kayak shop that I head down to Paul and his group. They got everything, whether you're looking for a new kayak, whether you want a new, used kayak, old town, native they've got a whole bunch of different types of kayaks in there. So go in there. And one of the coolest things is you can demo at the shop. It's right on the water. He'll throw it in the water. You can go around the basin with it, test it out, see how it feels, and I'll tell you what. That is the single most important thing that you can do when you're looking for a kayak. Don't listen to people like don't listen to me when I say get an old town, big water. I'm telling you that because I love it. It doesn't mean that you're going to love it. Um, also does have the Garmin force motor and that's a pretty badass addition to a kayak. So, uh, he's got that rigged on some. So if you want to test that out as well, you can do that.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 2:26

Next one is quad state tune Kevin Driscoll, 484-633-5975. Kevin has pretty much what you need if you have a Toyota, a Toyota truck, a 4Runner, tundra, tacoma, lexus, 460 or 470. These tunes are for the engines. It's going to get you more well, better gas mileage, more torque, more horsepower. And if you have one of those Gen 3, I think it was the Gen 3 Toyota Tacoma, it's going to solve the gear seeking where you're going down the road and it doesn't seem to want to kind of place itself into the right gear. So it's pretty inefficient or it feels inefficient, feels a little wonky. It'll fix that for you. Talk to Kevin if you're not sure if it's something that you should do. If it's not, he will just tell you no, don't get it.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 3:12

And then the last one is me for real estate, southeastern Pennsylvania, mainly residential. If you need anything, if you know anyone that needs anything, reach out to me. My number is 267-270-1145. Anything, reach out to me. My number is 267-270-1145. Be happy to help you out with anything that I can. And with that said, we're going to jump right in. I'm going to bring Kayla Hale on screen now. Welcome to the show.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 3:35

Hi, it's good to see you again.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 3:38

Thanks, good to see you too. Thanks for having me.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 3:42

Yeah, I, I I getting the feedback. When I have women anglers on, I pick really good ones. And you were on the live stream with me and podcast, but it was with Salt Strong and look, I did Salt Strong for a while. A lot of people listening and watching. But this is really what I like doing over here with this group of people and they haven't seen you, so I was like I got to hail it back on and you've got some stuff going on. You've got fish that I'm jealous of. You fish really close to most of our viewers. You know, most of our viewers are New York, new Jersey, maryland, and almost all of them are willing to travel.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 4:27

So, why not travel to see?

Capt. Kayla Haile: 4:29

you, you have to travel to find them. So I go to Jersey, I've gone to New York, I've gone to Rhode Island, connecticut, maine, massachusetts. Sometimes you got to go the distance to get a bite used to sometimes.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 4:47

Sometimes you got to go the distance to get a bite. So yeah and and but one thing that I really like about you is you're you're located in a great spot for multiple species and you hit multiple species throughout the year. So we're going to talk about some of the different species that you're targeting. But before we do that, why don't we just, why don't we start by kind of jumping in, talk about your business, you know where, know where are you, what do you do, what do you typically target, and then we'll go in and we'll start talking about some of these species.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 5:12

Yeah, so I run River Queen Guide Service, so 2026 will be my sixth year guiding and I'm very, very excited to share some news which many people probably already know.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 5:30

But I am currently in the process of getting a new rig built, a new custom jet boat by Rockproof Jet Boats. They're located in Harrisburg, pennsylvania, so I'm sure some of your listeners have seen some Rockproof boats around, especially in Pennsylvania. So I'm sure some of your listeners have seen some rock-proof boats around, especially in Pennsylvania. You know they're all over the Susquehanna River, but I am very, very excited to get this rig built and get it done and get it out on the water. I actually just got back a little while ago from seeing it and I talked to andrew who's, who's been great with helping me build it. He's didn't give me an exact date as to when it's going to be done, but it's probably going to be by the end of the month. I mean, it's built, it just has to go through the the painting process all the fittings motor yeah, mounting the motor and I picked out some pretty cool flooring for it.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 6:24

I got some neat lights going on it and it's a custom, like it's gonna be the first one, a one-of-one jet boat, and I'm really, really, really excited for it, and that's awesome I'm so excited to share it with you.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 6:40

Know, future clients, past clients, my family, my this has been a dream of mine for a really long time, and just the fact that it's now a reality and happening, I'm just, I'm itching so bad. I want to share the news with everybody, and I've been keeping some pictures hidden, um, and to myself about it, and it's just. I can't wait to share it with everybody.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 7:08

I can't wait to see it. You know it's. It's funny we had I had a few years ago.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 7:13

I had captain John Halkius on- and and he was talking about his new boat, and it's almost like talking to a parent who has a new kid. Oh my gosh, just the joy that you see in a captain's eyes when they have a new rig coming. That is one that they have designed and they have put together with their business in mind. You know, talk to Scotty Stevens. He's like you know, I have this ugly boat. Other people would hate it, but it's perfect. It's perfect for what he does. It sounds like. It sounds like that's what you're looking forward to.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 7:49

Yeah, I mean, like I, I just grew up running jet boats. You know, my, my dad was one of the first people on the lower Susquehanna river, below Conowingo, to actually have a jet boat lingo, to actually have a jet boat. So you know, that's kind of how I just grew up. Fishing was running shallow, skinny water, you know. So, learning how to run a river and read a river through him, you know it. Just it made me who I am today. So you, you know, just having that that teacher show me how to do it.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 8:28

And then, you know, I bought my own jet boat from, actually, another guide who guides up on the Susquehanna river. He was in the process of getting a custom jet boat built for his business as well at the time. So I bought his old boat that he guided out of for years and it was a great stepping stone. It was a perfect starter jet boat for me. I ran trips out of it for years, you know, and I was more than happy to then pass that boat along to another young man who bought it from me in July. And I'm not gonna lie, I cried for a couple days and when I saw it leave, you know I shed a couple tears. But I knew the young man that bought it, I knew he was gonna learn so much, take care of it, you know.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 9:22

And I I told him I was like give her hell, like yeah you know, that's what I did and it taught me so much and, yeah, I just this process. It's like my little. I don't have children yet, but if, if, this is anything what it's like to have a kid.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 9:41

Well, look, it's, it's exciting anytime that you know anyone, whether it's a boat, a kayak, whatever it is, that you're a truck, if you're, if you're a surf fisherman, you know all of these things there. I mean, it's, it's your platform, it's it's exciting and I can't wait to see you know, see some. I can't wait to see the pictures from the first bloody deck that you have on that thing. And so, let's say, you get it at the end of this month. So late September, early October, what's your first trip? I know you're going to take it out yourself. You're not doing a charter day once. You're going to take it out for the shakedown and all that stuff. What are you targeting to start off with?

Capt. Kayla Haile: 10:27

So it's funny. You ask that my brother and I we were actually out fishing yesterday and my dad was nice enough to let us take his boat and we were talking about that and I was like Eddie, you know what do you think our first trip?

Capt. Kayla Haile: 10:41

Because the first people on my boat will be my brother and my dad, without a doubt they are my two, they are my best friends, they are the two people I will fish with every single day of my life if I could. But we were talking about. I was like what should our first trip be? And I'm like, well, it's gonna be october. I'm hoping that you, we get some kind of rain or a hurricane would be awesome. But honestly, just taking it right outside of where the boat is being built, like the shop is right in Harrisburg, near there's a statue of Liberty on the Susquehanna river right there it's called fort hunter.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 11:28

Honestly, just taking it out right there and catching some smallmouth would be epic. I mean that would be super special, like that's where I learned a lot about the susquehanna river, just right in that stretch. But also part of me wouldn't mind doing that in the morning and then heading back down closer to my home in baltimore and going out and trying to catch striped bass so that's the trailer.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 11:55

As soon as you get the, the small mouth as soon as the small mouth hits the deck, I'll be like all right time to go, let's go get, let's go get a striper that's awesome because both of both of those fish are probably my top two favorite species to target.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 12:09

Yeah, I was going to say so, those that you know for the live stream, the and I actually I'm going to put this on the podcast art too that I mean you've got. You've caught some really nice striped bass. You know the one, look it's. It looks like it's just as big as you. It looks like you're. I mean, I don't think you can stretch your hands any further apart to hold that thing up. It's a great picture. You sent me a lot of good pictures and I was like, no, it's got to be this Like you can barely see, but this smile is the smile that we all have when we catch a big one. I do want to bring this one comment up first. So Casey is the one that bought the boat, right? Yes, so Casey is there's.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 12:49

Casey Already learned so many lessons. Yeah, I'm so excited for him and we keep in touch quite often and he's always sending me pictures of all the fish he's catching and you know I'm so happy that he came across my my Facebook marketplace posts because you know there's nobody else I think I would pick again to have that boat.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 13:16

So that's great.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 13:18

And you'll you'll get to. To wave to Casey, as you're flying to the next spot in the uh, in the fall in a few weeks, we'll be out there, all right. So you're flying to the next spot in the fall in a few weeks to be out there, all right. So you're going to hit some smallmouth. Let's talk about the striped bass, because the striped bass, I mean, that's going to be the fall fishery. So it's going to sound like a weird question Are you fishing Pennsylvania or are you fishing Maryland? Which regs are you worried about?

Capt. Kayla Haile: 13:44

So right now I'm fishing strictly in Maryland for striped bass.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 13:48

Okay.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 13:49

The, the schoolie fish right now are in in the Chesapeake Bay, pretty good. So right, yeah, right now is is mainly the upper Chesapeake Bay, and when it starts cooling off, a lot of fish will start moving into the tributaries of the Bay. So I'll start hitting some rivers and stuff like that. But yeah, right now it's mainly the upper Chesapeake Bay for stripers and then, once it, cools off.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 14:16

you know I love going with one of my best friends. We love going to New Jersey and hitting the Jersey run off the beaches there. Last fall was like something out of National Geographic. I had never seen so much bunker and and stripers busting on the surface and then a random whale would show up like and the tuna fishery up there. That was one of the first times I did that. I just I didn't actually like fish because I was too scared to hook into a tuna, but my friends that I was with they hooked into one and it was one of the coolest things I've ever seen. So once like late November hits that's you know I'll I'll go to New Jersey and start fishing there and then, once winter time hits the, the migrating cows start to move into the lower Chesapeake Bay.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 15:15

Right.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 15:15

Um, and then I'll start targeting them too.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 15:20

But you so clear this up for me. You have the canal, it's the DNC canal. That really is the feeder out of the Delaware right. Do you see now that the larger size fish coming through there that we used to God 15 years ago, or is that? Or is it mainly that they're pushing in from south at this point?

Capt. Kayla Haile: 15:43

Mainly that they're pushing in from south at this point. See, that's something, you know, I think about often. I'm like, because I do fish the upper bay, you know, we do see those big breeding stock of fish up here too. It's like, are they traveling? I don't know if they're traveling through the C&D or if they're moving up through the bay, or if they're moving up through the bay. You know, like last year I tried to keep more of an intel on like. When I heard the first batch of like big stripers were moving into the bay, I'm like okay, well, how many weeks or even days later until I catch one up? You know, up my way.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 16:23

Right.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 16:24

And it's hard to pinpoint, like I don't know if they utilize the C&D. I would be very surprised if a couple of them you know do go through there. I mean, it's easy access and they always say you know where a striper is born. They return to that spot every year.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 16:46

So I know that fish in the Delaware there it's, it's going to be packed with fish, Right, so you'd think that some have to head down through there. But you've also seen the Susquehanna flats take a real turn to the the negative. You know it, a real turn to the negative. It's nowhere near what it was. So I've always wondered is it that the fish are not coming in the canal like they used to? Because, look, we know, the entire striped bass behavior and migration is different today. Well, I'm going to say we know, because this is what I believe in what a lot of people believe. It's not that there's less fish, necessarily. It's that they're in different places. I mean, they're catching them a hundred miles offshores, offshore in the canyons, you know, and and they used to be inside the three mile line, which is why it's so great when they actually push into New Jersey. Where are you going in New Jersey? Are you going North Jersey? You have to be going North Jersey.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 17:45

Yeah, so I mean, I've gone to North Jersey, I've spent some time near, like, atlantic city, yeah, so a lot of it too is just like I don't want to say I followed the fleet, but you know just scouring the beaches. I mean we've, we've gone all the way up to almost the New York border, you know, from launching out of Atlantic city you know just driving all the way up there and then all the way back down. So it's a lot of running, but you know, once you find them it's game on.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 18:19

So it's absolute, mayhem, absolute mayhem oh yeah, and and, and. If you go at the right time, you're hitting the 50 pounders.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 18:26

You know the 40 to 50 pounders in that yeah, on top water, on spooks and it's just like I said, it's stuff out of national geographic and stuff I lose sleep over yeah, I, I haven't gone gone striped bass fishing in a very long time and while I like it, I don't put it as one of my top pieces to target. I just don't, for some reason. But I am going like I have this feeling like right here in my neck, like in my throat, like just thinking about getting on some big striped bass again, because it's been way too long and I remember the pictures of everybody last year when I was, you know, laid up and I can't wait to get out there and whether it's surf, it's, it's the backwaters. I was asking where?

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 19:18

In New Jersey, mainly because if you're really going to go, you have to go North of AC unless you have the exact right conditions, because it seems like the state kind of curves in and it's like they go straight south and then they get out beyond that three mile line and then you can't catch them again. Well, maybe I'll see you on a beach or maybe you'll be pulling up on a jetty and I'll be telling you to back up and give me some room. Maybe which happens a lot but I'll tell you what the, the if you head all the way up towards raritan bay, when, when you have a raritan bay bite. I would say it is literally the best striped bass bite in the world when it's going.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 19:59

I mean, it is absolute insanity. Absolute insanity, and what insanity. And what's even more entertaining is you have the New York boaters versus the Jersey boaters and they hate each other, but they're all from Pennsylvania so they act like they're so different. But yeah, you get the battles on the water All right. So you're heading out, you're going to head out for when you're heading out for striped bass in the fall, let's start with the Chesapeake. Let's talk there. We don't have to talk about the New Jersey. I want to try to get to this Are you approaching them differently in the Chesapeake than we're approaching them as far as tactics or baits or anything like that? So what are you using as your first? You don't know anything that's going on. You just know you're going out for the first time in the fall for striped bass. What are you tying on and what's your tactic?

Capt. Kayla Haile: 20:48

so my go-to in the fall is like a minnow plug. So like a five, four or five inch minnow plug, like a yosuri, like a. An sp minnow might be a little too big, but something of that style. That is my go-to. I always look for kind of like rocky edges and I'm a shallow water girl so I'm not fishing in anything more than like 10 feet, so anything like that. Or you know, at sunset a good top water can't go wrong with a spook, you can't go wrong with with a popper, anything like that. Or I'm starting well, I don't want to say I'm starting.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 21:34

I've always thrown glide baits yeah but glide baits is becoming a very popular lure for stripers. You know, my my brother got me hooked on glide bait fishing years ago. He's been fishing glide baits gosh. He was still in, I feel, like middle school, but he was throwing them for a large amountmouth bass in some local reservoirs and lakes and doing an absolute reckoning on them and I was like, well, why can't you throw these for stripers or even smallmouth, like I throw them for smallmouth bass on the Susquehanna River? And yeah, glide baits are a huge, huge game changer, an expensive one.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 22:22

But it can be worth it.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 22:24

They are expensive yeah.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 22:27

And glide baits I think are underutilized all over. I mean, you hear that they're popular in Texas but they're not as popular as they should be and all it takes is go out and use one. But what size are you using when you're going for stripe bass?

Capt. Kayla Haile: 22:44

so it all depends, like right now, or like in the fall, I would be throwing kind of a smaller glide bait just because your bunker is not fully grown yet. So like a five or six inch or seven inch glide bait would be perfect, you know. But then when spring hits, and, and you know, later, spring is when I throw the bigger glide baits, at least for smallmouth. You know, I've noticed that is when they like the big ones you know it's.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 23:17

It's funny that you're talking about a seven-inch glide bait as a small glide bait.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 23:25

Well, I have a couple of glide baits that are pushing a foot long. My brother, he's got some that I was like dude, that is ridiculous, you are not going to catch anything. They're 14, 15-inch glide baits and they hit the water.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 23:41

It's like throwing a two-by-four in the water and they hit the water, and it's like throwing a 2x4 in the water.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 23:44

But they work. Look, when I saw him catch a 7 pound largemouth on like a 15 inch glide bait, I was like, okay, where do I buy one? Where do I sign up? But yeah, the thing with glide baits, though, is you definitely don't catch the numbers of fish as you would on other artificial lures, but the quality it'll get you hooked.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 24:10

Yeah, I had one glide bait that I bought a couple years ago to test out for striped bass and I lost it. On the first one it was like a $27. It was cheap. But on the first one that I didn't even land, I was like, come on, man, and it was all my fault. It was totally my fault, I. I didn't tie it right and and it was one of the few times that I had a knot part, few times that I had a knot part, I looked at it. I was like, oh my God, it was the knot. So yeah, but that is, that is not a an expensive one. It wasn't a great one but it worked.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 24:52

And I did hook one. I guess it's two and a half years ago and the fish it was, it was a schoolie size, maybe 25, 27 inches max. And yeah, it hit it. I set the hook and it was on for about three seconds and swam away with my $30. But there I, I, I do like the glide baits, I do like them. So okay, so you're going to go out with the glide bait. Do you use soft plastics at all?

Capt. Kayla Haile: 25:15

I do, I do. So I'm a big, I love paddle tails.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 25:19

Yeah.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 25:19

You know, I know, everybody throws those NLBN.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 25:24

Yeah.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 25:24

No Live Bait Needed. There's a local company here in Maryland Invincible Jigs. They're phenomenal. I'm a big local supporter. I was going to say highlight all the locals. Yeah.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 25:39

Highlight local over anything else Is no Live Bait Need needed, even considered local at this point um, I mean, they're based out of florida, so you know, I know they're.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 25:48

They're selling in stores basically up and down the east coast, I think yeah so. But yeah, there's the local company that just started invincible jigs here in maryland. They're a great group of guys too. Same style paddle tail quality is they don't rip as hard as nlbns, you know, and I think for the, for the price that we're paying for some of these soft plastics, you know, you catch two fish and it's trashed right at least with invincible.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 26:21

It's kind of it's the stretchy material like z-man yep you know, and being able to catch a dozen fish on a paddle tail is a little.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 26:32

That's I mean that's big when you're spending ten dollars a bag for sure for sure yeah, so I I find when, when I'm using the soft plastics, I tend to go small and that's where I get the numbers and some quality, but it's the bigger baits you know, even let's say a spook, I'll use a spook junior.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 26:54

But, again, it's the same thing. I just find like you'll get the occasional big fish on those, but I found that you will get almost as many fish, but bigger fish on the bigger baits and it seems to make sense. But look, we've all caught striped bass that are 10 inches on a nine inch lure. I mean they'll all go after the bigger ones, but I think that's an important thing. But one thing I did want to mention, and it's something I do I want to see if you do this. When you had the bunker schools in and you're fishing around these schools and they're getting blown up so let's say it's peanut bunkers you got the little small ones. Maybe they're five inches. Are you matching that hatch? Or are you doing what I do and you're switching out to a different size of the same profile? So are you tossing out maybe an eight or nine inch to make it stand out from that school?

Capt. Kayla Haile: 27:47

I would probably throw something bigger and like another thing I've noticed, especially with stripers when they're busting on the surface, a lot of what you're seeing are like the smaller fish, with like an occasional big blow up here and there, but a lot of your bigger fish are below that. You know initial fish popping on the surface. So I'll throw something a little bigger and instead of you know cranking it real hard across the surface and catching your smaller fish, let it sink down.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 28:20

Yeah.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 28:20

And slow reel it. I mean, you know, work it like a normal paddle tail. But yeah, that's where your bigger fish typically tend to hang, it's like below the smaller ones. Everybody gets all excited seeing fish breaking on the surface and you know they want to catch them, which is great.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 28:36

But yeah, a lot of your bigger fish just kind of hang out below all that and yeah, so here's the question If you're going to head out for a day and it's just you, you and one friend if you're going to head out for a day and at the end of the day you're going to say it was an awesome day, is it because you caught a lot of decent fish, or is it that you caught a few, but you caught one trophy?

Capt. Kayla Haile: 29:07

I would be happy with catching a few, and my friend catches the trophy, not me uh, you're one of those yeah, so I get down inside.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 29:17

You know that you want that one of course, of course.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 29:20

But I, the older I've gotten, the more I appreciate seeing other people catch the trophy fish. I mean that's why I started guiding like yeah you know I I don't want to sound cocky when I say it, but like I've caught a lot of big fish in my life granted, I'm always wanting to get that satisfaction and catch another one. But I've just noticed I get more thrill and more joy and more satisfaction from fishing when I see somebody who doesn't do this every day, like yeah I, I have the.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 30:00

I can go do it all the time, whereas somebody who books me, or my friend who might not have a boat, or even just like my brother and my dad, like watching them to hook into two big fish is just I just sit back and I'm just like this is great.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 30:20

This is what it's all about step back and I'm just like this is great, this is what it's all about. I I'm kind of there with you. There are days like I don't really care because I don't really keep fish Would. I want to get a world record, Absolutely. But how cool is it to be there and see your buddy catch one?

Capt. Kayla Haile: 30:36

Oh yeah.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 30:37

You know, I mean that would be, that would be amazing. You know, just to be present and see that and see that memory and be part of it, I guess, is the other thing. Then you have Elle here with her comments She'd rather catch a bunch. She's all about the volume of fish, Understandable. I'm weird. I want to hook them, I want to fight them. I want to fight them.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 31:02

I don't even care if I land them most of the time, you know, unless I think it's a true trophy or a personal best Like. If I lose it it's like oh okay, I caught a striped bass. It was my second biggest one, it was approaching 50 inches and I didn't even try to land it, I just brought it next to the boat and just kind of like let it head, shake off.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 31:22

I just letting it sit there next to me. I'm in the kayak and I was like that's awesome. And I was like, oh, I got it on video. I got it. Of course I didn't have it on video, I thought I did, but my camera was aimed up too high and it's sitting next to me but. But it didn't matter, because it was. I got everything I wanted to out of the fish, but it's. I think it says a lot about you when you want other people to catch them, when you're on a personal trip too.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 31:46

Oh, yeah, yeah, and that's like um. So next, next week, I'm fishing a tournament with five of my very, very best girlfriends and we're an all ladies fishing team and I'm super, super excited. We did it last year and it was a. It was a blast. But I am just so excited to get out with them for two days and fish a tournament and just have a good time watch them catch fish. Like I already told them, I was like I'll drive the boat, I'll get all you know, rig up all the rods and everything, just being able to watch them hook fish and land fish and hopefully be in the running for some, for some money yeah, what?

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 32:35

what tournament is it?

Capt. Kayla Haile: 32:36

um, it's the tiki lees, rockfish open or rockfish tournament it's. It's one of the bigger tournaments on the upper chesapeake bay I mean you can fish the whole day, but it's. It's based out of tiki lee's all right, I gotta put this, this comment up it's in a brackish babes yeah, that's our team name that's your name, okay yeah, that's one of the girls on the team, melody.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 33:03

All right, melody. So anyone, anyone fishing that tournament? Look for the brackish babes on the leaderboard. How did you do last year?

Capt. Kayla Haile: 33:12

I can't remember where we placed last year, but it was. It wasn't in the top 10, unfortunately, but but we did so we missed the. They have a catfish calcutta and we missed winning the catfish calcutta by by like a pound. It was something so silly. But the girl that caught it rachel, watching her she's like a five foot two, about as big as my left leg carry this giant blue catfish across the the dock to the scales was. That was the highlight for me. This thing was huge it was. I can't remember how big it was, it was like 30 some pounds.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 33:54

It was giant well, those are those things are.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 33:57

They get huge, and we talked a couple years ago about the blue catfish and you weren't quite sure what to think about them at the time, except that they were fun to target yeah, I mean they're fun to target, but nowadays and I might get some some hate for this, but kill them all- yeah there are.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 34:17

Yeah, it's gotten to that point and you know, you know people have been saying you know, all of the snake heads are are destroying the bay and the blue cats are doing more damage than I can imagine. I mean, I've seen guys catch them and cut their stomachs open and have I mean four or five inch blue crabs in his stomach, like up to 10 of them.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 34:43

Yeah, I mean and these fish, you know, I've seen them in the lower Susquehanna River with four or five pounds smallmouth in its mouth, you know, and and these things are eating stripers. They're cleaning everything out.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 35:00

It's too bad. They don't get the zebra muscles. You know it's, it's, um, it's. When we talked about it, you weren't quite sure which direction it was going to go, so you were, you were kind of waiting to see, so you've gone towards the yeah they. They are everything that we feared them to be snakeheads, on the other hand, I think they have turned into be the biggest non-issue I've ever seen, like they don't, they don't do anything and everyone's like kill them all, kill them all. I'm like I don't think you need to kill them all. Like just let them go, because they're not, they're not killing things. I see them swimming next to bass at this dam, right near my house, in this little creek, and the Creek is producing just as many little. You know, small mouth and everything as it used to.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 35:41

Yeah, I definitely agree, and that's another thing. Yeah, the, the blue cats are just detrimental. It's it's becoming a serious problem, you know, and I think too, with the snake heads. You know, a lot of people were saying how they think they're going to destroy the bay and what. I think, because there's so many people out there targeting snakeheads now that people have caught on to how fun they are to catch good they are to eat.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 36:11

That's the key.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 36:12

You know those two factors right there. So many people and you know between rod and reel fishermen and bow fishermen too, like that so many people want to either catch them rod and reel or shoot them. So I think, with the amount of attraction that they've brought to the fishing community, I'm kind of hoping that the blue cat thing catches on board like that. I don't know, I personally haven't targeted blue cat, like I have snakeheads, just because I'm like catfishing, like it can be fun, like it's fun to catch.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 36:54

They're not fun to fish for.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 36:56

Right, I'm not a bottom fisherman, I mean. But blue cats. We've caught them throwing paddle tails and throwing lures in the river and they hammer it like stripers do.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 37:10

So that tournament is $100,000 prize. What James put in the chat. Right, could you imagine $100,000 prize? Just call it the Clean the Bay tournament. $100,000 for the chat. Right, do you imagine a hundred thousand dollar prize? Just call it the clean the bay tournament. A hundred thousand dollars for the most blue cats, the most.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 37:25

That would be cool. Or I mean why don't we do that, Like that would be great, but people see, you know, because they're an invasive species like yeah, but you, you gotta, you gotta harvest them all.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 37:39

You got to weigh them all in. Harvest you can have six people per boat. Right, right, heaviest poundage wins.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 37:47

I think it's just getting the attraction to it. That would be great.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 37:54

So I went out full disclosure. I went out and I have a bow that I'm getting set up for bow fishing and I can't bring myself to go for snakehead because I don't know that I would want to harvest them, even though they taste good. So now I'm like well, now I have this bow that I have for bow fishing, what am I going to go after? But I don't really have a blue cat issue up here and it's going to be tough to get a blue cat on a bow. But maybe I can try that. And people keep telling me go for carp. Well, carp. I don't think there are certain carp that are bad, but the common carp haven't done anything to the environment either, that I can tell.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 38:28

So I don't even want to go for them well, another thing that's really fun is you can shoot rays down here oh really and a lot of guys will go out during and you can do that during the day too, which also is is a plus. You're not up till two and three in the morning shoot, yeah, but uh, yeah, daytime ray shoots are a lot of fun and rays are bad for the bay too, because they eat all the crabs and strikers and anything else.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 38:56

So all right, maybe I'll do that, I'll finish getting it set up and maybe I'll do something like that. I just don't like the. I don't know. You only kill them to harvest them, so you got. I only want to kill something that I'm going to eat or that's invasive. So it really narrows it down. You know, when I was a teenager we used to go and shoot anything with the bows and go bow fishing, and it didn't matter what it was, we would shoot it or try to shoot it. But I'm not like that anymore.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 39:24

I just I get it. It's not for everybody. I've done it. I have a bow myself. I enjoy it. I don't do it all the time, Just for that same reason Like. I just don't do it all the time just for that same reason like I just don't want to go out just to kill like right?

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 39:42

well, there's at least more than digging right that's why I won't go gigging.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 39:47

They're like, oh, it's great, it's so much fun, but is it? I mean you just kind of troll the shallows and stab something with a fork? Yeah, it's like I don't know about that. Like, oh well, you can get some great flounder. I'm like understood, yes, if you're just going to harvest dinner, I get. Like I don't know about that. I'm like, oh well, you can get some great flounder. I'm like understood, yes, if you're just going to harvest dinner, I get it. But I don't know. I like do I need to spend all night doing that? I'd rather just sit somewhere, you know, and stalk a shoreline or a bridge or something like that and and actually fish for them and try to catch them. If I'm going to go for a limit.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 40:17

Like for me too, with bow fishing. It's fun when I go bow fishing in areas where I also rod and reel fish, because at night with the lights, you know, it shows. Like it shows where I'm fishing and like I can see the bottom where I'll be like oh, I didn't know a log was there or I didn't know. Like I'll be like, oh, I didn't know a log was there or I didn't know. I like I knew it would drop off, but I'm like, oh, I didn't know. It was like Sandy to Rocky. So it also it's like a learning curve too.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 40:51

Oh yeah, You're fine. You're fine in spots at night. So how, how deep, how? What's the deepest water that you'll?

Capt. Kayla Haile: 40:57

you'll shoot something on the bottom I like four foot and that's that's deep. I was gonna say that. That's beyond where I ever yeah, yeah, I was ever able to. That's pretty deep, but, like I said, I'm not a pro bow fisherman, so I just go out with some, some friends that have lights on their boats and that's my fault for getting us on there.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 41:20

I was just all excited that I got this bow, and I was, so I just go out with some friends that have lights on their boats. That's my fault for getting us on there. I was just all excited that I got this bow and I was ready to go, and then I realized that my target species is not the target I want. I had this bow sitting downstairs. I'm like what am I going to do with it? And maybe I'll go deer hunting. I don't know.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 41:34

I got to do something with it. I can't just let it sit there forever. All right, so we talked a little bit about the striped bass, but what are you doing for more of the freshwater? Is it all smallmouth, or is there something else that you're going to be targeting?

Capt. Kayla Haile: 41:50

Yes, it'll usually just be strictly smallmouth. I also enjoy doing some white perch fishing. I really kind of got into that this summer with with my dad and my brother, but we also do it in the spring on the susquehanna when the when the big female white perch move in. I feel like that's such an underrated species but, on on ultralight tackle. You know, catching 12, 13 inch white perch is pretty fun and and yellow perch too, like yellow perch in the winter. Same thing on ultralight, you can't beat it.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 42:24

I've never caught a yellow perch. I, I, I've tried, and I've always caught white, white perch. When you're targeting the white perch, though, are you, what are you using? Are you using just, you know, trout gear, spinners and those types of things? Or are you throwing out the, the, what are the? What are they called? The bloodworm imitation things? And just?

Capt. Kayla Haile: 42:43

kind of like. So I'm throwing like a little like three inch or two and a half inch little grub on like a little tiny jig head, like a 16 ounce jig head okay and again, it's kind of just for the yellow parts, just finding little schools of them, because that's a wintertime thing that we do here and once you find them, but they're, they're usually loaded up you know it here here's something from paul at great bay outfitters white perch from a kayak gets in through the winter.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 43:16

That's really how I found the white perch and I knew about them. I've caught them. But in my mind white perch used to just be what you went for, what you said you were going for when you were trying to catch striped bass out of season. That's what it was and you still see it today. You go to Jersey and I'm sure Paul, when he's out there fishing, sees this all the time, know you go to Jersey and I'm sure Paul, you know, when he's out there fishing, sees this all the time.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 43:41

You see somebody out there with a seven foot six inch or seven seven foot six rod medium heavy, 15 pound braid and they have this small, just all. The only difference is they have a smaller hook on it, so they can pretend that they're going for white perch in January, but they're actually going for striped bass, right? So to me that's what it always was. And then I started catching them in the winter because I needed something, I had to do something and I didn't want to go ice fishing and I realized there's so much goddamn fun Like I can sit there in that freezing cold and it's so much fun to go for these little things and I used a little ultra lights, the lightest rod that you can possibly get.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 44:24

And that's you know know, pan fishing in the winter time definitely gets us through and and you know crappy fishing chain pickerel. You know we me and my, my dad and and my brother we love chain pickle fishing and maybe it's because my dad holds the state record chain pickerel.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 44:40

So oh does he yeah, we like congrats, he's in the chat. Congrats on that. That's awesome yeah, yeah, yeah, he likes to defend his title so well maybe he'll come on and he'll talk to us about chain pickerel sometime oh he I'm sure he would love to.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 44:55

We should.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 44:55

We should do that next time yeah, we're breaking into peppering in some freshwater stuff, but it's mostly still going to be mostly brackish and saltwater. But that's again another species I've never I personally can't talk about, I can't talk about. But back to the perch. Let me ask you this I consider myself really new to perch. Right, I don't have all the techniques and everything. I know where to find them, but man, for me it's a lot of those fish bites and just kind of throwing it out and waiting for the bite. Have you found that in the wintertime, the colder you know when it's really cold, you know, just pre-ice, how slow do you have to move that? Just pre ice, how slow do you have to move that? Or because, in my mind, the colder it is, the more you need bait and the less that you use something that you're tossing and retrieving. Do you find that? Or am I just nuts?

Capt. Kayla Haile: 45:49

No, I definitely think that fish get very lethargic when it gets cold, but they, they got to eat. So I I honestly don't use bait. A lot of guys will use little shiners or minnows, which do work, and they do help, but the slower the better. You know you don't want to rip a, rip a jig across the surface or anything like that but, definitely a slower, smoother approach.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 46:19

You know, and I do use fish attractant stuff like procure, smelly jelly um and stuff like that, but yeah, definitely just a slower. Definitely can be a little monotonous when it's super cold but yeah, just a slower approach to to perch fishing helps but it's so much better when you get one in that freezing cold weather too oh yeah, you warm up real quick yeah, yeah, all right.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 46:48

so we're getting close to the hour. We're at 50 minutes right now and I was telling myself I wasn't going to ask this because people make fun of me for asking about this species all the time. But I'm going to do it anyway. So here's the question. Oh, wrong, one came up. Sorry, people are commenting, so it's kind of moving on me. Ask her about redfish fishing. All right, so we may be talking about a little extended range for you while you can catch redfish in the Baltimore area, but let's talk about it In launching from Baltimore area. What's the redfish fishing look like for you? If somebody came to you and said you know, guide for a day and try to get me on one redfish.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 47:40

I would not launch out of Baltimore. To be honest, when I go drum fishing is down in the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay. That is where, in my opinion, one of the world's best fisheries I've ever experienced is held. One of the world's best fisheries I've ever experienced is held. I don't go down there enough, in my opinion, just because it is like a four and a half five hour drive for me.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 48:06

Yeah.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 48:07

And when the usually when the bite is good is also when beach traffic is just the worst.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 48:14

So I don't want to sit.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 48:16

You know, what is normally a four and a half hour drive turns into a six or seven hour drive, but the mouth of the chesapeake bay is by far one of the. I'm blessed to have it as close as I do to my my home, but yeah, that that is where I would go. I don't know if I and I sound horrible saying this. I don't know if I sound horrible saying this. I don't know I wouldn't book me for a trip just because I don't go there enough to do it. And I feel like every time I've gone down I've I've just had a horseshoe up my ass, finding them and catching some of the pictures.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 48:57

I mean that's a hell of a horseshoe that you got yeah, it's just.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 49:00

You know, it's something I'm still learning to this day, but yeah, the the drum fishery down there is just we're blessed, we're blessed yeah, it's like raritan bay for the striped bass when they're there, it's, it's insanity.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 49:18

I, I, I would love to go down there again. Great bay outfitters. Paul is in cape charles, yeah, and if I recall correctly from his posts earlier, he's he's not going to be fishing tomorrow because of the weather, so he's all the way down there he ain't fishing tomorrow yeah, and that's the other thing, like and I know I'm not the only one saying this the weather, the wind, anymore is just it's brutal

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 49:47

choice words for for the old wind, but I haven't gone fishing in in weeks because the days that I could go are just all blown out.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 49:57

Yeah I mean.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 49:57

I mean it's like, oh, it's only going to be 18 to 26. I'm not going in 18 to 26. It's just not going to happen. I'm sure I could find a spot, but I don't want to do that. I want to have it like a fun day on the water, not just battling and try not to capsize and all that stuff.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 50:14

Right.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 50:20

I and all that stuff. Right, I got one more question I want to throw in here before I let you go. This is from L. Do you ever catch sturgeon as a bycatch, or have you ever?

Capt. Kayla Haile: 50:28

I wish, but I have not. The only time I actually caught a sturgeon was out in Washington, or it was Oregon, but I went with my best friend Carly. We booked a vacation and booked a trip out there sturgeon fishing. So that's the only sturgeon I've ever caught, but I know they're out there. You know, I've seen pictures and I've heard rumors of sturgeon being in the Bay, but no, I personally have never caught one one while, or at least on this side of the the country have you ever seen one jump?

Capt. Kayla Haile: 51:03

not here. I've seen them up on lake st clair yeah I've seen torpedo out of the water up there, but never, never.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 51:12

That's a scary that's a scary sight so I saw it in a. I wasn't in a kayak, I was in in my boat not my boat, but the what was the same model that I owned at the time. So it was a skiff. So you're really low on the water and this thing shot the back. You know, you know it's not coming for you, but you know you're looking at hundreds of pounds flying through the air out of nowhere. It's scary. I've never caught one, though.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 51:48

That's how I felt when I was up in Jersey last fall with the whales.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 51:53

Yeah.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 51:53

Seeing the whales come up out of nowhere over these pods of bunker, I'm like Holy shit, it's crazy, it's crazy.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 52:02

I mean it's, it's amazing, it is, it's. It's a little scary because you see people trying to get real close to them too and you know so they screw it. Not only do they screw up the fishing, cause now they're cutting across everything trying to get their video on their potato phone. But I mean, I don't think they realize how dangerous it is for them and the whales at the same time, but they are scary when they come up.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 52:32

I had man this was a long time, just one real quick story. It turned into not being the whale that we thought. So I was heading out fishing and we see a whale and it's coming up and down regular. So we get close, it's dead and I'll tell you what the sharks on that thing were amazing coming off of that thing. That's my big whale experience. The closest I got to a real whale was when we pulled up within about. I think we didn't get any closer than 50 yards because the smell was so bad but there were so many sharks. It was insanity. We were catching them on bucktails, naked bucktails, just the bucktails all the way out, landing it on the back of the carcass and pulling them off as soon as it would come off. They get hit by these sharks. It was so much, yeah, but I'll I'll stay away from the whales when they're coming up on those bunker things.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 53:25

Cause we've all seen the kayak at Eaton.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 53:27

We've seen the boat upsized. Yeah, no, thank you. No no no, thank you.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 53:31

Is there anything? Do you want to give people an idea how to reach out to you, Because I'm sure that somebody's going to want to get on that jet boat once it's open for business.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 53:39

Yeah, so yeah, hopefully the jet boat will be done in about a month or month and a half. Maybe I'll start booking trips again the first of the year, just because I want to get comfortable with it. But anybody can reach out to me on all social media platforms Facebook, instagram. Mainly those two is what I focus on the most, and it's just my name. You can just search Kayla Hale, I believe it pops up under River Queen Guide Service as well. Yeah, so either one of those, just shoot me a message or give me a call, even if you just want to talk fishing, I love talking about it.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 54:21

I'm going to watch it. I'll end up calling you.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 54:23

That's fine, we can chit chat about fishing. I love it.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 54:26

I spend way too much time in my day talking fishing, like I'm supposed to be working. Sometimes I'm like why have I been texting back and forth? And some of you are in the chat? You know who you are. I'm like what am I doing? Like it's been two hours and I'm talking about these fish and neither of us are going fishing. We're just coming up with ideas, ideas with each other.

Capt. Kayla Haile: 54:47

Like at my work. You know I have a full time job too. I don't guide full time, but I always have like on my computer, the weather channel tab open and you know somebody will walk over and they're like are you checking the weather again? It hasn't changed and I'm like, uh, yes, it has. You have to look at the winds yes you know, and they all make fun of me and they're like kella, what's the wind gonna be today? Like it's gonna be blowing, don't worry about it makes all the difference, though.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 55:17

It makes all that. That's. That's what the weather is to a fisherman. It's the wind first, and everything else Second. Exactly, we can, we can all deal with the rain, especially as we get into the fall and we start targeting the striped bass and rockfish whatever you want to call them. Uh, you know, those windy, rainy days are are the good days, but it has to be coming from the right direction for the right amount of time, and then they'll start moving in. So, uh, thank you for coming on. I really appreciate it. It's good catching up with you again. Can't wait to see those pictures of the uh, the first small mouth to hit the the deck, and then the first striped bass. I'll be looking forward to that I'm excited yeah, make sure you share that everyone.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 55:55

Reach out to kayla if you want to book a trip, Uh, and before we get going, just to let everybody know, next week we are going to be back. We're going to have bearded dad fishing on. So if you're a kayak fisherman, you've seen him online. He's got one of the largest Facebook groups, uh, for kayak fishing dads, uh, and kayak fishing people and just a really good guy. So Jay's going to be on next week. Again, if you haven't already followed this, share it. Most importantly, share it out to somebody who might, might enjoy the show. That would be greatly appreciated, Kayla. Thank you again and everyone until next week. Even with this weather, Paul, you two down there in Cape Charles, everyone get out there, get on the water, get some tight lines.