EP 43: Fishing Rods 101 with John Creely

We dive deep into the art and science of fishing rod selection with returning guest John Creeley, former co-host and current rod builder for Advanced Fishing USA. This episode unpacks everything from rod action to material composition to help you make better equipment choices for your target species.

• Every rod has a specific purpose - no single rod is perfect for all applications
• Rod actions (extra-fast to slow) significantly impact hook-setting ability and sensitivity
• For sheepshead and tog, moderate action rods provide the perfect blend of feel and forgiveness
• Weakfish and species with paper mouths benefit from slower action to prevent hook tears
• Fast action rods excel for topwater applications and accurate casting for striped bass
• Spinning gear offers better hookup ratios for jigging tog and sheepshead compared to conventional
• Spiral (acid) wrapping reduces fatigue during vertical fishing and improves bite detection
• Cork grips provide better feel but foam offers comfort for extended fights with large fish
• Custom rods allow for personalization of grip size, guide placement, and action for your specific needs
• Rod demo days provide the best opportunity to test different models before purchasing

Advanced Fishing USA is hosting a rod demo event in Seaside Park on Sunday, the 28th from 10 to 2. Visit to cast Century, JS, and Striker rods with free parking and admission near Stewart's Root Beer in Seaside Heights.

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Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction and Show Overview
• 4:30 Understanding Rod Actions and Power
• 16:42 Rod Selection for Sheepshead Fishing
• 26:50 Targeting Tog and Weakfish
• 32:00 Striped Bass Rod Considerations
• 38:12 Spiral Wraps and Rod Building Techniques
• 44:15 Cork vs. Foam Grips Debate
• 50:20 Closing and Upcoming Events

Transcript

John Creely: 0:00

It's meant for you grip size, placement, all that. It really, truly it's how you want that rod to be at the end of the day, and you're not going to get that on the shelf.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 0:16

Hello and welcome back to the Fat Dad Fishing Show. I'm your host, rich Natoli, and tonight we're going to do it's going to feel kind of like a throwback. So we have former co-host John Creeley coming back on the mayor and we're going to be talking about how to choose a fishing rod. It's going to be a little bit of an abbreviated holiday edition with this Labor Day holiday and I'm going to apologize up front. Right now we have a new dog in the house and, uh, some moron thinks that this is a firework, uh type of uh holiday for some reason. So, yeah, she's panicking, she's shaking, she just bailed out of my office just now, so we'll see if my wife can handle her. Uh, but yes, everyone, thanks for coming in. If this is your first time here, thanks for checking out the show. Look, if you enjoy it, hit a follow, hit a like, put a review on any of the podcast applications. If you're listening to it, if you're watching it on the live stream, youtube, just a like would be appreciated and, of course, let people know about this. We're trying to get a whole bunch of different variety going on this show as we move forward and we're going to do one of the, I guess, more traditional style, which is the how-to or informational type of broadcast tonight. That's why John's coming back on. So before we hit that, before we get into that content, I want to go through the sponsors, as always.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 1:45

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Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 2:50

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Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 3:33

And then the last one is me for real estate, southeastern Pennsylvania. I am now with Weikert Realtors out of Bluebell. I also am in the office in Collegeville, but main office that I'm out of is Bluebell, pennsylvania. Anything residential real estate let me know. And I do want to mention I do have quite the network in neighboring states where I am not licensed. But I can still help you out through licensed agents in those states. Got a couple going on in New Jersey right now. I had one recently in South Carolina. So anything you need, just reach out to me. Numbers 267-270-1145. Call text Just don't call right now. I mean somebody might, but I have you on mute. Yeah, so that's it. So listen, we're going to jump right into this. We're going to bring John on the screen and I'm going to tell you a little bit about why you might want to listen to John. Hey, john, good to see you back. What's up, buddy?

John Creely: 4:30

It's good to be here, it's good to be back. It's definitely been a long time and long overdue, as you said.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 4:36

Yeah, and a lot has changed. A lot has happened over the past couple of years, but back doing the normal show, the way that I was, and and look. One thing that's different is when, when you were on as a co-host, you had Creeley custom rods. You're building rods for yourself, but now you are one of the rod builders for advanced fishing USA. So why don't you tell us a little bit about that, what your kind of specialty is or the types of rods you like to make there?

John Creely: 5:04

so it was roughly. After I came off the show with you, our friend dean, who was one of the builders for advance, was leaving the shop and moving south, called mike up and I was actually just looking for a couple blanks for myself. He seemed kind of shooken up. I was like all right, well, call me back later on. It's like listen, dean's leaving, you think you can help me out with a couple builds? Sure, and it just turned into that. So it became too much for me to keep doing rods under my own name. Steer away from some of the decorative stuff and get to build some of the best rods in the world, at least in my opinion and others.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 5:42

Yeah, I am. I am the utility fishermen, right, I love the decorative wraps, but that's not what I'm looking for, and I'll tell you what. They still look really nice when you're you're cranking those out for advanced. I've I've seen the videos of them. I've seen the pictures, and every once in a while, you throw a personal build in there and that's where you really go crazy.

John Creely: 6:05

Yeah, you have to when it's your personal build. You have other people looking at your stuff when they find out your builder, so you try to showcase a little bit more.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 6:13

Yeah, so for people that aren't aware, so John's made me a few of my rods, actually my two primary fluke rods he built. One's a slow pitch and one's one that we put together. We did the cheapest rod possible and the thing I love the thing.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 6:28

It's heavy but I still love it. It works really well. I've caught thousands of flounder on that at this point. But John and I always had this thing where he wanted to decorate my rods. I'm like, can you just make it black? He's like, no, no, just trust me, trust me. And then it comes back with all these colors. I'm like, I appreciate it. I definitely appreciate it, but it's, it is. I'm the utility guy. John is the one who wears the, the brands and everything, almost like designer, where you're out there with the van stalls, you're out there with the beautiful wraps. I just want a black rod.

John Creely: 7:04

And it's funny because that is like 80% of the builds anymore that I do.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 7:09

Yes, yes. Well, it's a whole different market. You know, the custom market is a lot different, you know. I mean custom is where people are putting in. You know they're, they're getting oh, I shouldn't say this because a century blank, which is one of the most popular that you're going to be wrapping, is a premium blank. But when you get into the pure custom, they're like yeah, I'll throw an extra a hundred or 200 to get it to look exactly the way that I want.

John Creely: 7:33

Yeah, and they will. You know, and that's the beauty of a custom rod and a lot of it is it's tailored to you and a lot of people don't understand that. It's meant for you grip size, placement, all that. It really, truly it's how you want that rod to be at the end of the day, and you're not going to get that on the shelf.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 7:53

No, you're not, and that's where I had this longstanding thing. And we're going to talk about ugly sticks today, because I'm going to bring that up, because I have this personal battle against ugly sticks, and it's not that they're not good, it's just they're not good for what people think they're good for. You know, or they put the their biggest selling point as the most important part of a fishing rod, which is the fact that you can't break it. Well, you can break it, but you know, for the most part, it's really tough to break an ugly stick and to me that's one of the least important parts of a fishing rod. And I will say right now that, for the most part, as long as you have a quality blank, a quality rod, if you break a rod, I'm going to say easily, nine times out of 10, 90, 90 plus times out of a hundred, it was your fault.

John Creely: 8:49

A hundred percent. It was your fault.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 8:50

Yeah, but the ugly stick. It's more forgiving and okay If you just don't want to break a rod, I guess. But I don't think you can catch as many fish with with that type of rod. In a lot of different applications Some they're perfect. You know it is a perfect application, but we'll talk about those when we get to the graphics and we start talking about the power and all that stuff on the rods. So let's start off this way. So, john, what is the most important thing that you think people should consider first when they're going out to get a fishing rod and let's, let's look, we'll talk for seven weeks if we don't narrow it down. Let's go saltwater and let's talk. Let's start with, let's start with your, your favorite species. Sheep said what, what are, what are? What's the number one consideration that you think people should have before they start shopping?

John Creely: 9:45

You have to find something that's leaning towards that slower tip. You're looking for that parabolic bend in a rod. Yeah, you lose a little bit of sensitivity in that run there, but at the same point in time, with it being a thinner diameter blank, you should be able to feel a bite.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 10:08

It's more forgiving on a hook set. Okay, so you're going basically slower action on them.

John Creely: 10:12

Yeah, now the rod that I've personally been fishing and that's one of the companies we're dealing with now in advance is JS Company. They're one of Black Hole's competitors. Killsong works with them now and he's done a phenomenal job with bringing those blanks into the States. He pretty much has set out to made a true moderate rod. The inshore supreme ultra light is what I've been fishing for sheep's head, that is a mixture of carbon and then an S2 glass tip. So you do get that little bit of a parabolic tendency, but again, you lose a little bit in that sensitivity too. I do feel the bite better because the rod is rated 8 to 15 pound test on braid. So you have to think that diameter of the butt is pretty small at that point too, right? So the way to describe it is it's a trout rod, essentially in the saltwater game.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 11:18

Well, that to me sounds like a hell of a lot of fun. Yeah, instead of those tank rods, you know.

John Creely: 11:25

And that has a lot to do with it. It's you have to figure out what rod you're using for what species. Every rod has a job. This one's going to throw top water. This one's better for bouncing jigs on the bottom. This one's better for throwing pieces of metal. There's a rod in every. There's a rod in every. There's a rod for every application. You can try and narrow it down and find the best combination for a rod, but it's not. You'll find something, but it's not going to do one job Perfect.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 11:55

Right, you know it's interesting. Do you remember way back when Chris Balaban was on and we were talking about this and he made the comment and sticks with me today? He's like with me today. He's like you have to know, like you're gonna buy this combination of rod and reel and you're not gonna use it except for this one specific time of year. And you know he's talking like you'll use it one week and that's it, and then just stow it away because it has no other application and it it's very true.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 12:23

Now I, I tend to use one rod for a lot of things, but I use it in park, imperfectly for each. You know what I mean. So it's you know I'll, I'll use my fluke rods for TOG, which is that that's probably the dumbest thing that I do, but I, I still do it. And and you lose a lot because it's a different hook set, sheep's Head and Tog. I think they're a lot closer, but the way that you present to them is a lot different. You're using a lot different tackle, terminal tackle.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 12:57

But I want to put this up there and show people let's walk through your Sheep's Head and let's take a look at this graphic. You want to just kind of walk people through what this means on the screen right now and for people that are listening to the podcast, this is just a simple graphic that's showing the different powers of rods. So you have the extra fast, fast, moderate, medium and slow rods, and it's showing the bend of them. So, john, you want to just kind of walk people through this so they understand exactly what this is showing.

John Creely: 13:26

So yeah, when you're looking at the bottom, we're describing the actions of the rods and when you hear someone say, oh, I have a moderate or moderate fast rod, the picture depicts on how that's going to bend. Going through this graph like we were talking about is the slow pitch rods you have a tendency to lose that sensitivity as you go up the graph. You gain more sensitivity, but with the slow pitch rod you're not going to be casting, like you would, an extra fast rod, and that's what it was designed for.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 13:58

Right. Yeah, I think one of the most important things for people to think about. So it seems kind of counterintuitive when you say that when you have the faster rod it's more sensitive. But what you're seeing in here in this graphic you can see that the slow pitch is it's bent almost in half. Well, it is bent in half. So this is showing the loaded rod and what it looks like and where the bend is half. So this is showing the loaded rod and what it looks like and where the bend is. So what you're seeing on the slow is it's bent in half and this is where it's into the backbone of the rod. So that's where the power of this rod has transferred fully into that lure or the hook that's in the mouth of the fish. If you go all the way to the right, there's the extra fast. It doesn't bend as much. So that's where you see people. They assume you don't have a big fish on because there's not a lot of bend in the rod. But that rod all the way on the right, with that slate bend, is fully loaded. It's fully into the backbone. So it's closer to the tip. So John dropped off, he'll be back.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 15:03

But as as you get a bite or a strike, you set the hook. Think about the distance that the rod has to travel in order for it to hit the backbone. So extra fast when you go to set that hook. It's an extra fast hook set because the rod only has to bend that far before you transfer the power from the backbone of the rod into the hook, which means it's going to be more sensitive. You're going to feel it quicker in the backbone, whereas the slow pitch all the way on the left. It's going to have to bend significantly before you're going to have any of that power transfer. And you really don't feel much on the tip of a slow pitch when it's, you know, when it's just kind of bouncing on the bottom or anything it's, it's not nearly as sensitive and it's very slow. It just means you have a very long sweep to set that hook. As compared to that extra fast or fast. Anything that I missed on that, john, no that pretty much nails it.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 15:58

Okay, so. So let's go back to the sheafs head. So you're talking about what rod you're using for sheep said. Where is it sitting in this, in this graph?

John Creely: 16:07

here they consider that a moderate rod. Okay. However, I mean I don't know if you see me fishing that rod when we were out not too long ago. When that rod has been over, I mean it looks like a slow pitch. It's realistically, it's not rated for what we're doing yeah, so, and part of that is the.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 16:31

The point of that is that it's not rated for that size fish. It's not supposed to be for that size fish. So the fish is pulling it well beyond and it's deep in the backbone at that point. Yeah, correct, yeah, so you know that'll happen. You know you put four pounds of lead on an extra fast, it's gonna bend to bend. It's going to bend further. It'll also break before it goes too far.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 16:55

In many cases not all Some won't break for quite a big bend, but you have to look at that. So what you have right up here is the ugly stick is on the left, ugly stick is on the left, yeah, which means to set that hook, you have to do those monster freshwater bass hook sets in order to get that power into the lip. So hopefully this is making sense to people and you start to think about how you present your baits, what your fishing tactics are and what type of rod you're using. Because right now, john, most people just buy fast and they just think that that's the best thing. So are there specific applications that you would say you would want to use an extra fast or a fast versus a?

John Creely: 17:40

moderate. I mean in a fast application. I would be looking more into a surf rod because you're looking for that distance to get that plug out. You know past the bar my moderate. And you know past the bar my moderate. And you know your medium rods. I'm looking more at my bottom fishing at that point off a boat or kayak doesn't matter. That's where I'm going to use those because I want that little bit of forgiveness in that hook set. If you know, hey, we are out there fluking and you know it. Those fish, if they're biting, they come back four or five times. I mean you should have you know it. Those fish, if they're biting, they come back four or five times. I mean you should have you know, set the hook by the fourth time at least. But uh, you know that moderate rod, you know that's going to help. You know, hey, I got that extra little bit of forgiveness on the swing and I'm going to be able to, you know, set, send that hook home.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 18:28

Yeah, I'll tell you, for fluke, my favorite rod now is a slow pitch. That you made me Okay. I switched over to using that as my primary, so I have that. You know I naturally have. People have seen my videos, or many people have seen my videos. I tend to set the hell out of the hook anyway on a fluke, but I have to now with that slow, that slow pitch, because it's not getting any power until I really get it all the way back into that backbone. But I really like the moderate. But what are you using for topwater?

John Creely: 18:59

For topwater. The one rod that I do like the most is the Century Weapon. Especially if you're pitching smaller spooks and stuff at docks, that is going to be leaning more towards the faster side of the rods. It does have a softer tip than most of our century rods, but the nice thing is you still have that fast action rod and it's just easier to get the distance, a little more accuracy and where I want to pitch it at, and you know that that gets me where I need to be.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 19:31

Yeah, there's always the debate between the extra fast and the fast for the top water, but you bring up a really good point. It's something that a lot of people don't talk about is the accuracy. Yeah, and you know you think about it. The bend on a slow, let's just you wouldn't use slow for top water, so let's leave that out. Let's just say moderate when you use slow for top water, so let's leave that out. Let's just say moderate. When you're casting again, to get your power, you got to bend that rod, similar, you know, in reverse to what you're seeing on the screen right now. That's where it's going to get into the back. It's a little different, because if you go along the spline of the rod, it's actually a little different. It's not quite the same, but you got to bend it more to get that power, which also means that distance between that tip and that rod where it's going straight. Still, that's that's the play that you have. That's where. That's where the inaccurate inaccuracy can come right, because you have to, you have to swing. It's like it's like for for those golfers out there. It's why it's more difficult to swing a driver than it is a pitching wedge, because of the extra distance, it's not nearly as forgiving. So the faster you get generally, the more power you're going to have in that launch of the lure and the more accuracy, because that tip is not wagg left and right depending on how you sweep it. You know, you can.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 20:52

You know some people like when I cast, I have a very inaccurate cast motion. You know it's, it's not consistent. I don't know if people can see it, but like I'll, I'll roll my wrist sometimes. And if it's, if it's on a slow or a moderate or a medium. It's definitely not nearly as accurate as fast because the travel between the tip and that straight part of the rod is just not as much. So it's not off as much. Yeah, but what about the hook set?

John Creely: 21:22

As far as your hook set, it's nine times out of 10, one more for some bit for bass. You know they set the hook themselves. Just give it a little bump and it goes. They'll eat anything. But in reality you do have to drive it home just a little bit more if they don't pick it up right away.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 21:42

Yeah, so. So this is always a debate for the, and this is where it is, it's, it's, it's almost exclusively a top order debate between fat or, let's say, moderate oh, not moderate, moderate, fast. So in between the moderate and the fast is typically where people start that know what they're doing with top water. I shouldn't say it that way, because there's some outstanding top water fishermen that fish moderates and mediums. But generally speaking, you're going to see people moderate fast up to extra fast, and it's tough for me to find a consensus on which one's best for the hook set right, it's usually well, I do this because of the casting and the accuracy, but the hook set it's different on each. So what do you want like? I mean, do you know what would you recommend for somebody that's fishing? Let's say they're walking, the dog is there. Is there a certain action that you would suggest?

John Creely: 22:38

me personally. I want the moderate fast. That's me personally casting a few of the new js surf blanks too. I feel like you know, that type of thing like walking the dog throwing a metal lip seems to be a little bit better with with those rods. Not knocking century or anything, but that's just how I've always fished has been moderate and moderate fast. I have my century rods that I love for certain applications, but I've seemed to have grown towards these rods and again I can truly speak on it. It definitely bends and feels like a moderate fast rod okay.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 23:17

So, by the way, I apologize for the dog in the background. Somebody decided to. It was like an m100, I just felt sitting here, so you had okay. So you're looking more the moderate fast. What do you think about the action, though? Because, again, when you have your rod out there, you're working the top water and you're walking. Walking the dog is the example I like to use, because you're actually working that lure and you have to have some finesse on it or else it ain't walking right. It's going to be skipping, it's going to be I don't know plow. Most of the time it's skipping. For me, I find it difficult to use an extra fast rod. I have one extra fast rod that I got for topwater, and I don't use it for topwater anymore because it's like every little move of your wrist you're now into the power of that rod and it just starts skipping and I can't walk it as easily. So do you find it easier to walk with those slower or I shouldn't say slower, but the well, yeah, the slower actions?

John Creely: 24:22

Yeah, when you're let's just say you're you know, picking between fast and moderate. To me it's going to be a little bit easier with the moderate because you do have a little bit more flex in a rod, but then again now you're losing that. That hook set. It's not going to be as easy. Right, there's so many. It could go on for days.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 24:44

Yeah, that's why this is I.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 24:46

I personally love these types of discussions because there's so many ways to do it and I can only share what I like and what other people have told me about what they like. For example, if I, the majority of my cast in real fishing, so subsurface is going to, which is subsurface is going to be, with a jig head and a soft plastic on it, right Like I don't use a ton of swim baits or glide baits. I'd like to use more glide baits but I just don't. So what I'm using for those, I'm using extra fast on those and I find that that works really well because you have a swim action typically on those baits, so they're naturally going to be swimming and it allows me to get a lot of action into them with just a tiny movement of the wrist as I'm reeling it in, whereas if you're throwing a medium it's I don't know it just feels like 90% of your movement is just getting the flex in the rod so you can get the power down to the lure to move and that's pretty much it.

John Creely: 25:56

Again, it goes back to like you're saying, that little bit of flex in that rod does help you move that bait around the way you want to. I'm sorry, I have it backwards. It's the extra fast because of the stiffness. How you have it, it, as opposed to that moderate or medium moderate area, it's you're losing it because of the sloppiness.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 26:20

Right, right, right yeah.

John Creely: 26:21

I was looking at. I was looking at the slow, looking at it backwards, yeah.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 26:24

Yeah, okay, so you're looking more in the moderate to moderate area moderate, moderate, fast for the sheep's head.

John Creely: 26:33

Yeah.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 26:33

And you're doing that. You're doing that specifically because of the style that you're fishing. What are you using for talk?

John Creely: 26:40

for talk. It's pretty much the same and it goes back to, like we said, that hook set can be similar in the way you want to drive the hook home. At least with Todd they have those fat rubbery lips so you have to send it through them. The sheep said you're trying to send it through the jaw Right. Again, yes, it's a similar bite in that aspect where you want to send the hook home, the same amount of power. So again, I'm looking in that moderate to moderate fast area. Okay.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 27:15

I'm going to agree. I use actually a moderate fast for sheep's head and for tog. It's a moderate fast. I just think it's easier and I love getting in the backbone fairly quickly on them. But I also yeah, I'll just leave it at that I like getting into the backbone quicker on those.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 27:36

The biggest thing is for the tog for me, because the sheep's head aren't necessarily going for cover. They're not going to go into rocks and they're not going to extend their fins and get stuck Right. So you need something that's going to get in the power on the hook set and hold in that power the entire time so you can kind of pull them away or pull them up or or whatever I don't. I don't really see that issue so much for sheep's head, so I would actually even be comfortable with more of a moderate. I don't know that I would go below that though, because, like you said, you have to sink that into the bone on those fish. Because, like you said, you have to sink that into the bone on those fish and if you don't have power quick, it's going to spit that hook and it's just going to be gone. Now, what are you doing for something that has the softer mouth? Or are you even looking at the species like a weak fish? What are you using for weak fish.

John Creely: 28:28

I'm going to use more of a faster rod just because I'm going to be casting more and especially if you're sight casting, you know three feet, four feet of water and you know some of those spots where they hang around I want to be able to rip that bait as fast as I can across, just so they can go after it. Again, that's the accuracy thing. Going back to that, I want to make sure I'm going in the same area. If I know where those weak fish are at, I want to be able to put that bait in the same spot every time.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 29:03

Okay, and are you looking at a different presentation? Let's say you're not using a jig head, right, and let's say you've got. Let's say you're not using a jig head and let's say, let's say you've got. Let's say you're jigging for them, okay, are you treating that more like fluke or you do you have a specific difference? If you're just going to target weak fish?

John Creely: 29:23

At that point. I've it's. I'm going to be using my fluke gear at that point. So I'm going to be looking more in that medium area because I like that little bit of extra bend when I'm fluking. So it's the same concept.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 29:37

You know, if I'm going to be jigging for them, I want that little bit of extra bend okay, yeah, I, I personally have found with specs and with weak fish, because of their mouths and because they tear so easily, I really do like this slow and the medium for those, unless I'm casting. If I'm casting, I'm going to a fast or a moderate fast. Again, I don't really like using extra fast all that often. I'm not a finesse fisherman, right, so I tend to, I think, put too much pressure at times on a fish and where you're where you're risking ripping out the mouth or creating a hole big enough for it to spit that hook, I want something that's going to transfer less power on under. You know more movement, you know what I mean. So I, as you said, I need it to be forgiving and I'm definitely using those slower rods when I'm looking at a fish with kind of like the paper mouth.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 30:41

Now, fluke aside, fluke do kind of have a little bit of that. But fluke it's all about the bite. To me it's all about the way that they eat, the way that they put it in their mouth, the way that they hold it, and for me I want it slow because it makes me slow down right. It makes my hook set less urgent, a little slower. It takes longer for that hook set to actually happen, and that's where I'm doing that. We got a couple of questions in here, so I want to throw this one up. It's from Paul for Great Bay Outfitters. Action being constant, would you consider conventional?

John Creely: 31:24

If you're looking at a constant action, it depends.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 31:30

Why don't we do this here?

John Creely: 31:31

is an example, conventional or spinning for sheep and tog.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 31:35

He's found his hookup ratio differs between the two.

John Creely: 31:39

And I'll totally agree.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 31:42

Okay, so I want to hear what you say, because I bet you were opposite I were 100% opposite.

John Creely: 31:47

I know exactly where you stand and I know where I stand. I don't know. I'm spinning all day long when it comes to jigging sheeps and tog. If I'm fishing, you know a rig, I'm on the conventional rod or a bait caster.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 32:05

at that point too okay, so we are so opposite that we're identical I do not like fishing for sheep or tog with spinning gear on I'm sorry with conventional gear, unless I'm fishing a rig. Okay, I just I do and and, as a matter of fact, the rod that I've caught the most sheep on is a cheap god, it's like a 35 rod is it one of the five saw rods?

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 32:36

no, no, I forget what it is. It's like I don't know it's some old thing. I had it. I actually just still have it because I'm shocked I never lost it. Okay, so I have it only. And look, I've no secret that I don't fish sheep very often, but I don't fish this rod often, so I kind of put it aside just for sheep, okay, and it's always rigged up for that. So, yeah, all right, so we're, we're both on spinning. I I wonder Paul, throw in there, are you looking spinning for sheep and tog? And I'll be flat out, when I'm using jigs I have a much better hookup rate when I'm fishing spinning. There's like no question about it.

John Creely: 33:17

So you're saying you do have a better hookup ratio with the jig on the spinning rod. Yeah, and there's reasons for that. It's I've noticed it's you can be able to put a little more slack in that line on a spinning rod and just kind of let them take the bait, walk away with it, as opposed to that conventional rod. You got to open up the bail a little more. A out it's at least with a jig.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 33:46

Rig's a different story. Okay, yeah, for rig. It looks like the three of us are all using conventional for the rig. Well, for tog, he's using. I just have a problem with those jigs on conventional, which is weird because I'll use them on conventional slow pitch for fluke, but not for these.

John Creely: 34:07

Yeah, no, and I agree with it a hundred percent.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 34:09

All right, let's hit real quick striped bass, because that's going to become real popular real soon. So striped bass, and look, there's a thousand ways to fish them. Let's start off actually. Let's start off this way. What rod do you recommend for somebody who's not sure what they want to do, but they want to start fishing from shore but not the surf. What are you going to be recommending for a good rod to get started with?

John Creely: 34:34

I'm sure not the surf. So it depends, and you have to. Are we talking about, you know, 10, 20 pound, 20 pound bass, 30, 40 pound bass, because, again, that makes a big difference. You know, what is that rod going to be able and what it's, you know, capable of handling?

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 34:53

So let's, let's, let's put it in, as it doesn't matter what the slot is. There are very, very few people that care about the slot. They want to catch the biggest fish possible. So let's say the ones that people are targeting the 36 to 50 inch.

John Creely: 35:10

You know, most of the time I'm looking again at that faster rod because I'm looking to get the distance as far as I can and pinpoint my my cast every time.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 35:26

Yeah, I'm. I'm using personally a TFO pro extra fast. I believe it's extra fast, medium heavy and that's that's what I'm going to be using for everything. Actually, I even use it in the surf. But it's not what I would use in the surf If I would go out to buy a rod to use in the surf. And I'm not talking bait. There's no bait in any of this conversation about striped bass for me, because I just don't bait fish for them. At least in this conversation we're not talking about that. So I'm using something that's going to be up in the fast to extra. I'll say fast, yeah, fast action TFO Pro, which is a pretty cheap rod. It's $165, I think it may have gone up in the past year and the medium heavy and I have caught striped bass over 50 inches on that. I don't think there were 50 pounds.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 36:25

Actually I do think it, but I can't claim it because I have absolutely no way of knowing if it was, cause I didn't even take it out of the water, it just kind of held it there. Yeah, that's what. That's what I'm doing, for that is what. What rod blanks would you suggest for somebody who wants to go to advanced and pick up a good straight bass rod in that 36 to 50 inch range?

John Creely: 36:47

it comes down to preference again. You know it's we have. You know the slingshot. It's a good metal lip rod. You know very thick bulky rod. It's going to get the distance where you need it to be and it's going to work those you know plugs a lot better. One of my personal favorites is the I'm drawing a blank, we'll get back to that in a minute. But we have a lot of customers that come in for the surf machine because that's a continuous action rod and that will damn near throw everything, anything and everything you can think of I've talked to a couple people who said, yeah, I use this rod for this weight lure.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 37:32

I'm like what. And they're like yeah, it's only rated for a quarter of that, but I still use it. Yeah, they're able to throw anything. They're like, yeah, it just means the warranty won't cover it, but I'm still tossing it. Yeah, here here's's a good question, actually. Joseph Kiley Two-part question why or what is the purpose of building a rod where the eyes rotate around the blank, and is there any advantage to that? And that, specifically, is referring to acid-wrapped or what the hell is the other name for it.

John Creely: 38:02

Spiral wrap acid wrap.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 38:04

Spiral wrap yeah.

John Creely: 38:06

So talk about that, I think you since I got you on that now I think you can attest to it and why you would want to use it in these situations. When you are bottom fishing and let's say you're anchored up, especially on double anchor, you're fishing straight up and down the whole day. At that point that is now causing less fatigue and less roll in that rod, as opposed to those guides being straight up. The line is also now aimed down directly to the fish as opposed to being rolled over top of a guide the whole way down on the rod. It alleviates a little bit more stress and it's going to give you a little bit better bite detection because of the way it's aimed towards that fish as well yeah, and a couple of you know to dispel a.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 38:54

What people believe, then it's not true is you can still cast with them. You still cast with a spiral wrapped rod and you can also wrap it backwards. So you have to figure out are you right-handed or left-handed? Because it will, it'll. It'll spin it the wrong way in your hand. It'll naturally want to go one way, where you're holding it you know the opposite way, if that makes sense. So you, in other words the, the eyes wrap one direction on for a left-handed and then the other direction for right-handed it's.

John Creely: 39:30

It depends on the builder, who you talk to and what they believe in. I mean me personally. I notice a little bit of a difference. I don't think everyone's going to be able to pick that needle out of the haystack, but there are going to be the select few that are going to. Yeah, but nine times out of 10, the guy's just excited to get the rod. Me personally, though, I am one of those guys I believe in. Are you left handed or right handed?

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 39:55

Yeah, I definitely do. And the reason is this If you think about it, you're holding it like a conventional right. Think about it, you're holding it like a conventional right. I mean, the reel is on the top and your handle is going to be on the left or the right right. So if you're already putting pressure on the left part of the rod because you're reeling with your left, where do you want the rod to be pulling?

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 40:19

as it starts to wrap around it and you can absolutely feel the difference on that and actually now, with a professional rod builder, you probably won't run into this. However, there are a lot of manufactured rods where they don't check for the spline and that will automatically cause some roll in the rod as it is, and you're definitely going to have that roll in the rod when you have it acid wrapped because that spline may not be exactly where it's supposed to be, and I don't want to go too far into what that means. But if you take a blank and you roll it, you can find the spline of the rod and you should wrap it with. This is debatable.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 41:01

People believe this and some people don't believe this. But the rod wants to bend in a certain direction. It just does, and which is actually why you see a lot of people that hold the rod upside down with their spinning reel and you see it trying to twist, sometimes because it's it's off. It's off spline and you know it's. It's rigged wrong or it's rigged properly, but you're holding it improperly so it wants to spin over the other way. So you'll actually see that where the rod is, you know you're you're fighting it against the backbone that is there for the cast instead of the backbone that is there for the the fight of the fish. I definitely believe it, though I think you need to find that spline on the rod.

John Creely: 41:46

Yeah, I agree with that, I mean, and that's again. You know that and it's a whole nother discussion. We can go into 45 minutes. More is the spline versus the straight access. And let's just say I build on the spline and we'll leave it at that.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 42:03

Yeah, I mean, mean the rods want to roll. Yeah, so do you want a rod that rolls in your hand? When you're trying to fish, you're trying to pull it in straight or you're trying to twist it around. So you're trying to keep it around the motors and all of a sudden it starts twisting on you. It's like do you really need that extra strain, especially if you're talking big fish? Right, let's say you're out for pelagagics and your rod wants to spin, or you're on a marlin or tuna and it wants to spin. You definitely don't want that, but you have the same thing with the acid wrap. So, going all the way back to what started this, you have the same thing because the rod will try to twist if it's not wrapped the correct direction.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 42:41

That's what I will say. Any rod builder can argue with it if they want, but I've had both. As a matter of fact, you've made me. The first rod that you made acid wrapped for me was for right-handed, and then the other one is left-handed and they fish different. Now it doesn't really matter for fluke, you know, because I'm not really. It's not going to twist for fluke, but it would matter if it was a tuna rod, exactly. All right, let's see if there's other questions in here. We wanted to kind of keep this a little shorter. Let's see All right, joe is only using the spiral wraps. All right, joe is only using the spiral wraps. All right From James Flynn is the graphic showing the rod being bent backwards?

John Creely: 43:44

It is not. It is just it's a bad graphic. So showing the reels on the wrong side, what it's showing there is under stress, with the fish on it. You know, I just, I just realized they're all spin casters.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 43:48

Yeah, it's a good question, and you're correct, we're, we're. What it's showing in the graphic is you have a fish on and you're fighting it that way. So, yes, the real is opposite. Yeah, yeah, it's not. That's a good point. It's not correct, not correct, okay, not, that's a good point. It's not correct, not correct, okay. This one's from paul again, cork or foam grip. Sorry, if this is like a ford versus gm question, what's, what's your preference on the grips?

John Creely: 44:16

I fish everything. It don't bother me. I mean I'm even fishing shrink tube with cork tape now on some rods, so it's again, it's all preference, so your preference is what, though, if you had to pick one? I mean, if you're holding a gun to my head, I mean I guess I'm going to go cork. I personally like cork, just the feel of it. Problem with cork gets a little slick, gets a little slippery, it has to be good cork?

John Creely: 44:47

Yeah, it does, and even the high grade stuff it's, still it'll fall apart later on down the road, you know, quicker than the foam. Problem with foam is it gets a little smelly after a while and then if you start to yeah, it can, but you really got to take care of it you start getting into those fancy foam grips, like some of the rods that I've done. They're going to fall apart after a while. Keep cleaning them and cleaning them, it's they're going to tear apart. So the cork to me seems to hold up better, I can maintain it better and it's definitely a for versus GM question in my opinion. Yeah, I'm going to say I like cork.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 45:26

I prefer cork almost all the time. When I don't prefer cork is like I was talking about earlier. If I'm tuna fishing, if we're talking the really large, extended large fish, shark fishing as an example, I don't have one shark rod or one tuna rod that has cork on it. Yeah, even though I prefer cork, it's foam because foam it doesn't hurt your hands as much. You can have a a easier time on a longer fight. But for everything else in the perfect world I have a nice high quality cork on there because I think you get a really good grip. But on top of that, I believe that you can feel the rod and what's happening on the rod a lot better with cork than you can with foam. It doesn't deaden any sensations on there. But the same thing can be said about the shrink wrap. I mean you're literally touching the rod Like it transfers everything.

John Creely: 46:27

Yeah, I mean, if you think about, you know a lot of guys that you know fish the surf rods and have the Paco grips on the surf rods. You know we have customers requesting that on normal seven foot and seven foot 10 rods. You know that these guys are using on boats. We have those requests now and you have to think the cork tape is there for a little bit of cushion but that space in between that cork tape is blank. So you're you're directly connected with that fishing rod.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 46:57

That. That's an interesting see. I don't know if a lot of people realize what, what is underneath some of these real seats and everything like that. Like these, these rods don't just fit together perfectly and just slide into place, right, I mean? You, you've got gaps in between a lot of it. Yeah, right, I mean, if you do the foam correctly, there's no gap. No, the cork. If you do it correctly, there's no gap. No, the cork. If you do it correctly, there's no gap. But sometimes there is.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 47:27

If you, if you have a rod builder, or if you build your own and you don't know how to turn any, you don't know how to turn wood and you don't make your own custom grips, the sizes don't necessarily match up with the taper of the rod. So what you end up doing is using a lot of people use masking tape. So you just keep looping masking tape around the blank until it's to a point where it's going to take up that gap. You put five minute epoxy or whatever they're using, you slide it on and over there, which leaves a gap in there, so you don't have that direct transfer of energy between the rod and your hand at that point.

John Creely: 48:02

Yeah, and that's basically that. It's creating an arbor with that masking tape so it has the grip pass somewhere to sit. But again, like you said, now you've created a gap between that blank, where that grip isn't meeting the blank, so it's not. Again, you're not getting that direct feel of that blank.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 48:22

Yeah, let me ask you this I have had custom rods not that that you made just for the record where the real seat came off, okay, and you know, to fix that it's not, it's not incredibly difficult, but you have to start taking stuff off, right? Yeah, and I've seen where there's. Just one of them was one thing of masking tape in the middle of the real seat and it was just glued in one point. How do you do it for those? For real real seat is where you're going to get most of the time personally.

John Creely: 48:56

I mean, I prefer the arbors themselves, but at the same point of time, the volume that you have to crank out arbors aren't necessarily going to be cost-effective either. But you know, for a nice, cleaner look and everything like that, for your peace of mind, an arbor, a polyurethane arbor, is going to be the way to go. However, you know most of the rod builders still to this day and I do it. You know it's ease of time and everything is the masking tape trick. So what you do is you glue in your bottom grip or you know shrink tube. Whatever you're doing, set up that whole bottom section, your butt grip. Once that butt section's in, I take a paint marker and I mark where the real seat ends and where the real seat begins. I lay two arbors there and then in between those two, on the bottom and the top, I lay one in dead center. So I have three arbors to support the whole thing and then I'll lay in my epoxy.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 49:51

Gotcha. Okay, that's good Cause. So you have multiple points of connection there. Yes, yeah, I have one. It's in my garage right now that I took apart. I was like there's one freaking thing of taste. And then it was just glued to the grips on each side. I was like that is not that. That's why it broke. You know, it's impressive. It lasts. I'll be honest, john. It lasted a really long time, probably 15, 20 years, okay. But now I got to take it all apart and cut grips off and everything like that, because I I well, I cut the one off.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 50:23

I'm like man I should have cut the other one off, because now I gotta slide this whole thing off and and reseal it and redo it.

John Creely: 50:31

There's tricks now. There's tricks we could talk yeah, I think I'm.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 50:36

Yeah, we'll talk about it. I don't even know if it's worth redoing. It was more of a taking a look at it and what the hell happened. I was like, oh my god, it's just so poorly made. But yeah, the guy who made it is no longer with us. He's an old friend of mine it might be worth saving that it might well.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 50:55

Yeah, I don't think I'd ever fish it again, though. All right, are there any other questions in here? Let's see if I missed any. It seems like the acid wrap is is something that some people want to give a go on. Yeah, it looks like we're. It looks like we're covered. It looks like we're covered on the on the questions, john.

John Creely: 51:17

Thanks for coming on, man absolutely, and if you don't mind real quick, just because I forgot to mention it to you earlier, advanced Fishing is doing our rod demo show up in Seaside Park. It is, I believe, sunday is the 29th or the 28th. I'm sorry, sunday the 28th. I think that's right. It's 10 to 2, I believe I don't have the flyer in front of me. Come down, cast some rods. Nice thing is, you know, if you've been contemplating on a custom build, we offer Sentry rods, we now offer JS rods and we now also offer Striker rods. If you want to get that entry-level custom rod, you know. Just something again, it's tailored to you. We take your measurements how you want it, glue everything into place how you want it and go from there, come out, test everything. We also have vendors coming out selling plugs, all kinds of tackles, bags, free parking, free admission as of right now, and we'll be over near the Stewart's Root Beer in Seaside Heights.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 52:23

Awesome. Yeah, everyone get out there, check that out. There's something about a demo day that people should just really go check them out. It's the same thing as I talked about with Paul earlier with Great Bay Outfitters. Just demo this stuff. Don't go into a shop and just get something that looks cool. Anybody can make any blank look cool. The question is, can you learn about the rod, learn about the composition of the rod, the components and everything like that? And at these demo days you're going to be able to do that. So it's definitely worth the trip out there. I don't know what the weather's going to be like, but the weather's not great, it's guaranteed rain.

John Creely: 53:05

Every year it always rains.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 53:06

we're still there, but uh, just bring a raincoat, it's guaranteed yeah, well, if you're not going to be on the water fishing, you may as well be spending money on your next trip by gearing up with some new stuff. That's the way I look at it. Yeah, all right, guys, everyone, john, thanks again. Everyone, thanks for tuning in. Next week we're going to have captain kayla hale on chesapeake captain, she was on, I think, when I was with salt strong actually, uh, and she's just man. She's in on the striped bass, she's in on everything, uh, in the northern chesapeake. So she's going to be on.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing: 53:41

The week after that we're going to have bearded dad fishing, uh. So any of you in kayak groups, uh, on Facebook or social media, you've seen him out there. So we're, we've got a couple of big guests coming up. I'm still trying to figure out with Hanushevsky when he's going to be on. So we've got some. We've got some good guests coming up. John, thanks again for coming on. We'll be back next week 7.30. Until next week, everyone, get out there, get on the water and get some tight lines.